Tolkien and Psychedelics

[Sardy]

Thanks for the quick response! Before jumping the gun, I should say that in starting this topic, I specifically shied away from mentioning things like "Eating weird mushrooms and licking paper soaked in LSD" or even specific drug use of any sort (though it should not be demonized or out of the realm of discussion, either). There are many, many forms of altered consciousness besides drugs---from spinning in circles to to transcendental meditation, from lucid dreaming to religious experience, from genetic makeup to brain injury, psychological conditions to evolutionary digression. Many forms of altered consciousness are indeed "normal", and experienced naturally. One thing I wish to avoid in this discussion is a heated debate of the morality and ethics of the drug phenomenon.

Originally Posted by The Might

Now of course we all sometimes want to be in a fairytale place, and of course we wish we were floating around with dragons etc. but things don't happen like this in the Seventh Age of M-e.

That's not at all what I am driving at or looking to discuss (although things like Ent draft, Elven wine, pipe weed, etc. might contradict your statement---(I would also defer to Dinah Hazell's wonderful The Plants of Middle-Earth which is an invaluable resource in learning more about the physiological, psychological and spiritual uses of "drugs" in the first three Ages of Middle-earth). Rather, I am looking for a discussion of altered states of consciousness---psychedelic experience (from Aragorn's "vision" of Moria to Frodo's dreams of the sea)---however they may occur: whether invoked by higher powers, sought out through meditation and pipe-weed, prompted by rings of power, or naturally occuring states of consciousness as in the Elves (perhaps in part a side effect of immortality?).

Regardless of the cause or the duration, the Elves DO indeed exhibit an altered perception from that of men (and other mortals). I am curious as to discussing how this plays out within the story, as well as breaking down the third wall to discuss how Tolkien perceived and created the different mindsets of his characters and races.

Originally Posted by The Might

So, I'd conclude that whatever the Elves were doing it was by no means anything psychedelic for them only relatively perceived as such by the Hobbits.

Well, then---their perception of the world around them, and their state of consciousness, is certainly psychedelically different than that of the Hobbits (and of the reader), isn't it?

Originally Posted by The Might

Furthermore, in these experiences people want to do it, they voluntarily put themselves through a certain process to experience a new state.

Not necessarily. Or at the very least, that wasn't one of my intended points. While altered consciousness certainly CAN be a voluntary experience, I don't think---especially in a fictional work---that it must be so.

Originally Posted by The Might

...as far as I know the Professor was not a big fan of experimental drugs. Firstly, his Catholic upbringing would surely make him an opponent and secondly I believe I read somewhere that he disliked hippies and such, who were at that time some of those experimenters.

I did some Googling before starting this thread and couldn't find ANYTHING on this topic. But I would be very interested in learning about Tolkien's experiences with and/or feelings about drugs (including pipe-weed and alcohol), altered consciousness, and psychedelic experience! Likewise, I'd be very interested in learning more about how the psychedelic movement of the sixties (and beyond) embraced Tolkien and Middle-earth, how they perceived it and what it meant to them...

Originally Posted by The Might

The topic seems interesting and I have no doubt that a nice discussion will emerge of this.

I certainly hope so!!!

[obloquy]

I see the connection. Both (fantasy and psychedelics) may be used cheaply for momentary thrills, of course. But if taken seriously, both can also open a window on perceptions that are deeply personal--perhaps spiritual. Many who respectfully use natural substances to alter their state of mind report that they experience an enhanced connection to nature, and a reinvigorated love of beauty. Often the shift in focus persists, as if the person suddenly realizes how vain the constructed world around them is.

There is a clear parallel here with the elves, whose connection to nature and perception of the spiritual is fundamental to their peculiar identity. Additionally, how often has reading fantasy aroused some longing in you for a simpler world and a more natural life? A more direct involvement of your inner self in your day-to-day existence? This is exactly the kind of pursuit that motivates many who deliberately alter their state of mind.

[Morthoron]

Hmmmm...I would have to say that Aldous Huxley and JRR Tolkien are at opposite ends of the literary spectrum as far as how they sought inspiration. I don't see Tolkien, a staid Oxford don, as a Baudelairean hashish-eater (Tolkien's poetry is not evocative enough for a full blown trip, like Coleridge's 'Kublai Khan'). And perhaps the anonymous writer of Beowulf hallucinated due to ergot poisoning after eating some bad rye bread, but Tolkien's inspiration came directly from the Norse, Finnish, Greek and Anglo-Saxon, and bedtimes stories written to delight his children.

Reading about his home life, it would seem a few pints at the Bird and Baby was about all the stimulation Tolkien needed to write his mythos. Jim Morrison he was not.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Reading about his home life, it would seem a few pints at the Bird and Baby was about all the stimulation Tolkien needed to write his mythos. Jim Morrison he was not.

Though by today's attitudes towards cigs, booze and stodge, he was quite decadent If Tolkien saw the state of Oxford pubs today he'd be mortified - having to lurk on the pavement for a rushed intake of nicotine instead of actually enjoying a langorous smoke of a cigar or pipe while sitting by the pub fire; being monitored on your intake of beer and hectored to get up and do 50 star jumps in every TV ad break...I think he'd be horrified at the freedoms we have given up.

But in any case, great topic!

Yes, I've noticed a LOT of incidents in Tolkiens writing which have struck me as very 'trippy', and even the demeanour of the Elves themselves suggests they are not quite of this world but somehow exist between two dimensions - which always makes me think of Blake's vision of angels amongst many other 'uncanny' things.

Without being near any biographical tomes to check, I can only offer some notions about Tolkien's own experience... For one thing, Catholicism is a deeply mystical and colourful faith with its saints, icons, incense, ritual etc. so if anything his faith would lead him more towards the 'trippy' (I think I'd prefer to call it visionary, actually) imagery, rather than away from it. And another thing to bear in mind is his interest in dreams and the symbolism of them, something we see reflected in his writing - I have often wondered if he did any of this 'lucid dreaming', if such a thing exists...

Anyway, there's a few things...quite randomly as is appropriate for such a topic

[Faramir Jones]

I agree with this:

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Though by today's attitudes towards cigs, booze and stodge, he was quite decadent If Tolkien saw the state of Oxford pubs today he'd be mortified - having to lurk on the pavement for a rushed intake of nicotine instead of actually enjoying a langorous smoke of a cigar or pipe while sitting by the pub fire; being monitored on your intake of beer and hectored to get up and do 50 star jumps in every TV ad break...I think he'd be horrified at the freedoms we have given up.

In support I quote the famous hobbit drinking song:

Ho! Ho! Ho! To the bottle I go
To heal my heart and drown my woe.
Rain may fall and wind may blow,
And many miles be still to go
But under a tall tree I will lie,
And let the clouds go sailing by.

Even when reading this as a young teenager in the early 1980s I thought this praise of alcohol somewhat excessive! But we have to remember that Tolkien's Shire, and even the real world he grew up in, are and were quite different from our own. For example, the massive and near-ubiquitous increase in the use of motor transport in the UK and many countries in his lifetime led to the need for regulation, including drink driving laws.

I think the main criticism that could be leveled against Tolkien today would be toleration, indeed encouragement, of obesity! As evidence I give part of the poem 'Perry-the-Winkle', where a kindly troll, grateful that a young hobbit was nice to him, invited him to tea every Thursday, with the following result:

Now Perry-the-Winkle grew so fat
through eating of cramsome bread,
his weskit bust, and never a hat
would sit upon his head;
for Every Thursday he went to tea,
and sat on the kitchen floor,
and smaller the old Troll seemed to be,
as he grew more and more.

What do people think?

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Faramir Jones

What do people think?

I despise political correctness. At the current rate, we'll all eventually be placed in individually-wrapped body condoms, and, safe in our prophylactic cocoons, we will no longer need to touch another human being (as intimacy of any sort causes all sorts of infectious abnormalities). In addition, all books will be burned as decadent and leading to thought; art will be purged as immoral; sex willl be eliminated as gross; alcohol, sugar, salt, tobacco, wood and wood byproducts, meat, vegetables, the sun, the snow, and grass will be banned; and safe in our condoms, eating our non-biotic cellulous mash, free from anything that will trouble our minds or hurt our tender sensibilities, we will blandly float about in our plastic bubbles touching nothing and having nothing touching us.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

I despise political correctness. At the current rate, we'll all eventually be placed in individually-wrapped body condoms, and, safe in our prophylactic cocoons, we will no longer need to touch another human being (as intimacy of any sort causes all sorts of infectious abnormalities). In addition, all books will be burned as decadent and leading to thought; art will be purged as immoral; sex willl be eliminated as gross; alcohol, sugar, salt, tobacco, wood and wood byproducts, meat, vegetables, the sun, the snow, and grass will be banned; and safe in our condoms, eating our non-biotic cellulous mash, free from anything that will trouble our minds or hurt our tender sensibilities, we will blandly float about in our plastic bubbles touching nothing and having nothing touching us.

Superb!

Funny how the once quirky beliefs of the old hippies - their macrobiotic food, organic lifetsyles, their eco lightbulbs and yoga - have become rules and regulations. Nowadays to rebel you must seek out the last meat pie and chips in England and drink beer...