Winged Beasts, a squandered resource?

[Lalwendë]

In the real world the only 'fell beasts' you find are sheep and the occasional hiker in a cagoule, so in that respect the term makes me laugh.

Bringing back up the quote Nerwen posted:

A creature of an older world maybe it was, whose kind, lingering in forgotten mountains cold beneath the Moon, outstayed their day, and in hideous eyrie bred this last untimely brood, apt to evil. And the Dark Lord took it, and nursed it with fell meats, until it grew beyond the measure of all other things that fly; and he gave it to his servant to be his steed.

Tolkien makes it clear their origins are unknown, but that they had been around in more ancient times, and had gradually died out apart from in isolated areas. They sound as though they could be nocturnal creatures (a little like bats?) and they are carnivores. They can also grow to a huge size if they are bigger than any other flying creature - presumably including both Eagles and Dragons?!

[Morthoron]

The wingspan of Quetzalcoatlus northropi (the largest pterosaur) was from 33-36 feet in length:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Quetzscale1.png

The length of the creature's neck would give a shield-maid like Eowyn plenty to chop at. At an estimated top weight of perhaps 550 pounds (or 260 pounds, depending on the expert conjecturing), it would seem to be able to carry the physical manifestation of a Ringwraith (who, I assume, are not as weighty as your average flesh and blood mortal).

The wings are indeed batlike, but it is toothless, as it was a later Cretaceous version of a pterosaur. Earlier incarnations, like pterodactyls did indeed have teeth.

I think I prefer this version of a Fell Beast, as opposed to the stinky, plucked chicken variety.

[Alfirin]

I agree that Fell beast are remakably pterosaurian in general apperaance (I am using pterosaurian instead of pterodatylyin to incude those mebers of the the pterosaur family who are not pterodactlys) with one marke difference of corse, namely that most if not all known pterosaurs have very short necks. the bat wings do not really precude a reptilian or saurian origin, "Pterodactyl means "finger winged". but there is no hard an fast rule that says that a bat like structure could not evolve as well. Come to think of it most images of dragons, including Tolkein's use a bat wing structure, and dragon's (if they existed are generall assume to be reptiles/saurians. I tend to imagine something vaugely wyvren (two legged dragon) shaped but with a long neck ending in a beaky head (I honest dont know if fell beats have teeth or not) possibly with a casque (horny crest). They proably have one un-reptile like trait though; fell beast are likey warm blooded (like some dinosaurs were supposed to be). Flying takes a lot of energy (remeber fell beast are actual fliers, not simply gliders) and a fully cold blooded animal, especially one as big as fell beasts were would likey not posess a suffciently efficent metabolism. There also would be little use in buliding a messenger servie around animals that would (given thier size) need to bask in the sun most of the day to get thier body heat up enough that they could be usable.

Speaking of dragons I seem to recall an earier thread in which someone asked why Sauron did not try and convince the remaining dragons of ME into joing with him, . While I have no proof of this there is a theory I would like to propose namely that none of the remaing dragons would have been of use. It is said that Smaug was the last of the great dragons, I propse he may also have been the last of the winged dragons as well as possibly the last of the Uruloki (Gandalf does say that there are no dragons hot enough to melt a ring anymore, but whether that means the those left have no fire, or simply not enough is unclear) That's enough deviation back to fell beasts

As for thier orgins I seem to recall general cosensus being that there were another of Morgoth's creations, just one he never got around to using. We know that Orc are sometimes beieved to be the result of Morgoth's twisting of elves; maybe fell beast are the resut of a similar twisting of eagles, or an unholy hybidization of dragon and vampire (bat). Certainly unlike dragons, fell beast appear to be non sentient, or at least non verbal on the order of an itlellegent animal (like a horse) but no more.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Hmmm....

Going out on a limb here (while waiting for the Christmas fudge to cool): The thought comes to mind that whatever the creature's real name might be, the original critter that eventually became the Winged Nazgul Mount™ could have been Melkor's attempt to parody his brother Manwe's Eagles. I don't recall ever reading that in any of Tolkien's various writings and drafts, but it would go along with him making parodies of Elves and Ents (it also keeps with the nice alliterative pattern). That it looks nothing at all like an eagle, save for having wings and claws, would not be amiss, since orcs and trolls about as similar to Elves and Ents.

And I still tend to think that we didn't see them used sooner because either the few that were around weren't yet capable of being effective mounts, or because Sauron was holding them back to increase the fear factor when he needed it.

[Rumil]

Hi all,

Good points!

Alfirin, I'm sure they could have used the Fell Beasts for aerial bombardment to some extent, remember the attacks on Faramir and his men? FB armour might be tricky due to weight constraints perhaps. btw thanks for the paragraphs!

Gordis, like the GH scenario! The quote regarding 1418 says to me that this was the first time they were released on the unsuspecting world, probably the Nazgul had trained them in secret for a long while previously.

Morth, I'm liking Quetzalcoatlus northropi a lot, and Ibril's 'mockery' idea!

Meanwhile,

whose kind, lingering in forgotten mountains cold beneath the Moon

has me tantalised, which mountains? Cold implies North, or very high, Ered Mithrin, the Grey Mountains, work on both counts, and also are close to the Withered Heath, the last-known dragon-hangout, possibly relations of the Fell Beasts? Alternatively some Eastern range, the Northern Yellow Mts perhaps? Why 'beneath the moon'? This makes no sense unless to emphasise that they are nocturnal.

Morth- Nazgul no. 2 :, Lal - Hillary Briss , Gordis- Fluffy 1&2 :... LOLs

Henceforth I shall know the FBs as 'Fluffy' just as the littlest-Nazgul is forever Skippy ;-)

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel

... I don't recall ever reading that in any of Tolkien's various writings and drafts, but it would go along with him making parodies of Elves and Ents (it also keeps with the nice alliterative pattern). That it looks nothing at all like an eagle, save for having wings and claws, would not be amiss, since orcs and trolls about as similar to Elves and Ents..

Yes, nice alliterative analogy...elves and eagles and ents...oh my! It is very plausible, considering the eagles and fell beasts ended up battling above the Morannon, just as the eagles and dragons battled in the 1st Age.

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel

And I still tend to think that we didn't see them used sooner because either the few that were around weren't yet capable of being effective mounts, or because Sauron was holding them back to increase the fear factor when he needed it.

Well, the Olog-hai arrived late on the scene, as did the Uruk-hai, both creative output from Lithui Labs Ltd., Mr. Sauron Gorthaur, CEO (Chief Evil Omnipotentate).

[The Might]

When Merry and Pippin were captured by Uruk-hai at Amon Hen on February 27, Grishnakh said the prisoners should be taken across the Anduin where a winged Nazgul waited. Ugluk taunted Grishnakh about the mount that had been shot out from under the Nazgul, and Grishnakh said that the winged Nazgul were not yet ready to show themselves on the west side of the Anduin. They were to be used for the War and other purposes.

I'll edit in the quote when I get home and have the books available for that purpose.

Idea is however, that Sauron somehow found these creatures somewhere, maybe the remains of some experiments made by Morgoth in the First Age, maybe found during his exile in the far east. He then proceededto feed them and to corrupt the race further in order to create the steeds. Finally, the Nazgul received them as steeds, but only once Sauron no longer saw reason for any secrecy. Horses were at first better because, as pointed above, they inspired less fear. But still, we know what by February 27 they still were not allowed to openly show themselves to the enemy.

[Gordis]

Going out on a limb here (while waiting for the Christmas fudge to cool): The thought comes to mind that whatever the creature's real name might be, the original critter that eventually became the Winged Nazgul Mount™ could have been Melkor's attempt to parody his brother Manwe's Eagles

I don't think so. I believe Morgoth's response to Manwe's Eagles were definitely the Dragons: Morgoth had indeed put a lot of work in Glaurung, Ancalagon and the rest of them and got impressive results.

Undoubtedly originally (before Sauron's intervention) the FB were much smaller than the Nazgul Mounts™: although maybe related to cold Drakes, they were some small flying carnivorous critters living under the Shadow of Morgoth.

When somwhere a shadow lies, the local fauna tends to become creepy (i.e. Mirkwood). I don't think Morgoth paid the FellBeasties any special attention, like Sauron hardly specifically bred black squirrels of Mirkwood: they were too insignificant.

As for how the original FellBeasties looked like, I am tempted to post a small excerpt of a fanfic Mountain guardswhere a nest of wild FellBeasties is described. I think the author was very close to the target in this description:

From a fanfic by Malicean: A hiss like a live coal hitting water. A very angry coal – and it brought friends. The Uruk is lucky to loose merely the tip of an ear and a handful of stringy hairs when a score of greedy jaws shoot from the rock face on skinny necks. Pu-sha-skoirs. Winged-Maws. Fellbeasties. Perfect stock for breeding a grisly airborne steed – if you’re a Ringwraith with a couple of millennia on your hands and nothing better to do.
If you know where the colony is, you simply stay out of reach, and they’ll do nothing but hiss and spit. They prefer dead meat to those who might fight back – but if opportunity marches straight into their jaws… Unlike their giant cousins, fellbeasties can’t bite you in halves, but they can take off a hand, a foot or half of your face, whatever they get hold of. And perched at the entrances of their rocky nests, necks writhing snakelike and wings spread for full display, they look more than ready to attack.

The original Fellbeasties (little creatures prone to evil) likely lived somewhere near Utumno and Angband. When this region had sunk, they probably didn't fly far, but continued to live in the nearest "forgotten mountains cold beneath the Moon"
Now which mountains would that be? - If we believe the maps of the First and the Second Age by K.W. Fonstad, Utumno must have sunk in the place where later there was the Ice-bay of Forochel. Just have a look at the site of Utumno on these two maps:First Age Second Age
In the Third Age the nearby cold mountains were known as the Mountains of Angmar, where the Witch-King's fortress of Carn-Dum once stood. Very likely the small fellbeasties felt quite comfortable under the Shadow of Angmar and maybe they were indirectly referred to in the description of Angmar in App. A:

the realm of Angmar arose in the North beyond the Ettenmoors. Its lands lay on both sides of the Mountains, and there were gathered many evil men, and Orcs, and other fell creatures.

Anyway, it is quite probable, that although this component of Angmarian fauna originally had been of little use to the Witch-King, later he told Sauron about the critters and advised to bring a few of them to Mordor for experiments. (The Witch-King's involvement in the FB project is specially noted in "the Hunt for the Ring , RC). Sauron, after his failure to enlist Smaug to his side and the dragon's destruction, likely sought other flying creatures to work with.
I guess it was not easy to find the remaining fellbeasties in the mountains of Angmar, but eventually, the search parties returned and brought to Mordor the last remaining brood, maybe 30-40 years before the War of the Ring.
By 3018, Sauron managed to make them grow "beyond the measure of all other things that fly", but I think the brilliant idea to give them as steeds to the Nazgul came at the last moment, after the Nazgul lost all their horses but one at the Ford of Bruinen.

[Lalwendë]

This:

whose kind, lingering in forgotten mountains cold beneath the Moon

means they are probably not reptilian creatures. I can't think of any reptiles which thrive on cold and moonlight. Even British snakes need to bask, and they hibernate in winter, as do Toads and Frogs, so I doubt it's Amphibian either.

If it's a mammal then it's one which doesn't need to be nursed on milk, or else has been weaned early. Being able to fly doesn't rule out it being a mammal of course.

Also, they were "lingering in forgotten mountains". Does that literally mean 'in' the mountain, as in a cave? Or does the use of 'eyrie' exclude that?

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Originally Posted by Gordis

I don't think so. I believe Morgoth's response to Manwe's Eagles were definitely the Dragons: Morgoth had indeed put a lot of work in Glaurung, Ancalagon and the rest of them and got impressive results.

I'm not saying that the beasties were the intended final product of an attempt to parody the Eagles, but rather that they were a step along the way toward that eventual development, set aside if not entirely discarded because they were not sufficiently the result Melkor had in mind. I rather tend to think of Melkor like some mad scientist breeding things in a genetics lab -- a strange sort of Dr. Frankenstein, obsessed with the idea of creating life on his own, but lacking that ability, content to corrupt and twist what life exists into monsters who will wreak havoc on the world he hates. These critters are his "children," and like any bad narcissitic parent, he will keep them all about him, some to be praised, others to be punished, but all to serve. In LotR, they are the evil parallel to the Eagles, since the dragons and other more impressive flying nasties appear to have died out with Smaug.

Well, it's another thought.