The Middle Earth Popularity Cup - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Groin Redbeard · 11-27-2008, 09:13 PM

Oh gosh, now it looks like going to have to vote for an elf.

++Galadriel

All the good reasons have been already said about her. There is nothing attractive about the fool of a king who leads his own people to misery. He is like a silver tongued dictator who sacrifices everyone for the sake of his own foolish ego.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morthoron

For instance, Michelangelo was such a cranky so-and-so that he famously snubbed the formidable Pope Julius II, nicknamed 'The Terrible Father'. He literally had to be dragged back to finish the Sistine Chapel (Raphael, who like Da Vinci had a falling out with Michelangelo, said he reminded him of a 'solitary hangman').

Michaelangelo didn't despise his creator and lead his entire race into misery.

mormegil · 11-27-2008, 11:52 PM

++Galadriel

The fact that she gave Gimli 3 hairs is all you need to know.

Morthoron · 11-28-2008, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

Michaelangelo didn't despise his creator...

Ah, but according to many fundamental Christians spewing their version of the Bible, his creator would despise Michelangelo for his homosexuality and send him to Hell. At least Tolkien granted a measure of forgiveness to Feanor at the end of all things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

and lead his entire race into misery.

And how many leaders profess an earnest love of their version of the creator, yet lead their race and the world into misery in spite of their avowed belief?

In any case, I don't recall Feanor actually despising his creator. Can you point to the text where that is stated?

Legate of Amon Lanc · 11-28-2008, 06:21 AM

When I opened the thread and saw somewhere "++Galadriel" (without yet reading the thread properly), I was clear on what is the choice for me

Of course, because of the sense of duty, I scrolled up and checked who the other candidate is - but I can hardly imagine a worthy competition here.

++Galadriel

And now I may as well go and read the arguments which people had for one or another here on this thread

Nerwen · 11-28-2008, 07:03 AM

++Galadriel

Well, duh... who did you think I'd vote for?

...But actually I do think Fëanor is pretty cool... in an appalling sort of way.

Mithalwen · 11-28-2008, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerwen

++Galadriel

Well, duh... who did you think I'd vote for?

...But actually I do think Fëanor is pretty cool... in an appalling sort of way.

Ah well we balance each other out.

I suppose that I just felt that in the end there wouldn't have been much of a plot without Feanor and his crazy family

Nerwen · 11-28-2008, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Yeah, indeed: Finland is the notorious feminist country where women have always been at least quite equal with men and got the right to vote third in the world and first in Europe.

But not before Australia, so clearly, I win.

Aganzir · 11-28-2008, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

So you would have preferred her to be bitter and twisted like Erendis? Or ended up alone and unhappy?

To be honest, yes. I'm not a fan of happy endings. I wouldn't have minded it if she had died, either, but I don't think I'd claim she was punished for not staying in her box. Actually her death would have been the best option, in my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mith

Women who don't know their place come to a bad end they don't marry the man who complements them perfectly.

Okay, that's what happens to some, but I bet there are at least as many books of a woman getting a happy ending despite once stepping astray. Learning to accept one's place is maybe called 'growing up', but I think it should rather be called 'getting tired of standing up against what one considers wrong'. In that sense, I don't think Éowyn learnt to accept her place, but she made the choice which was considered normal for a woman. She could have been such an extraordinary woman (once she got over her depression) but her end was simply boring.
And yes, the novels I was thinking about were mostly Finnish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mith

There is absolutely no evidence that she had to marry at all.

I didn't mean she had to marry Faramir because she wanted to become a 'proper woman'. What I thought was rather that Tolkien wanted her to marry so she could become that and get a happy ending (in Tolkien's opinion - and I don't deny it is a happy ending, it's just not what I would like) as well, which is the thing that annoys me.

skip spence · 11-28-2008, 12:17 PM

A fairly comfortable win for Galadriel in the end despite falling behind early on. Fëanor, who will be fuming, is sent on the long and lonely journey back to Formenos.

Match 13 of Round 1:

Also known as Strider and Elessar, Aragorn is one of the favourites to win this tournament. He will be in for stiff competition against the legendary Elu Thingol, tallest of all the children of Illuvatar, High King of Beleriand and leader of the Sindarin Elves of Middle Earth in the first Age of Arda.

Aragorn vs. Thingol Greycloak

11-27-2008, 11:52 PM	#2
mormegil Maundering Mage Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,651	++Galadriel The fact that she gave Gimli 3 hairs is all you need to know. __________________ “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

11-28-2008, 06:21 AM	#4
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	When I opened the thread and saw somewhere "++Galadriel" (without yet reading the thread properly), I was clear on what is the choice for me Of course, because of the sense of duty, I scrolled up and checked who the other candidate is - but I can hardly imagine a worthy competition here. ++Galadriel And now I may as well go and read the arguments which people had for one or another here on this thread __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

11-28-2008, 07:03 AM	#5
Nerwen Wisest of the Noldor Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ Posts: 6,694	++Galadriel Well, duh... who did you think I'd vote for? ...But actually I do think Fëanor is pretty cool... in an appalling sort of way. __________________ "Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo.

11-28-2008, 12:17 PM	#9
skip spence shadow of a doubt Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Back on the streets Posts: 1,125	A fairly comfortable win for Galadriel in the end despite falling behind early on. Fëanor, who will be fuming, is sent on the long and lonely journey back to Formenos. Match 13 of Round 1: Also known as Strider and Elessar, Aragorn is one of the favourites to win this tournament. He will be in for stiff competition against the legendary Elu Thingol, tallest of all the children of Illuvatar, High King of Beleriand and leader of the Sindarin Elves of Middle Earth in the first Age of Arda. Aragorn vs. Thingol Greycloak __________________ "You can always come back, but you can't come back all the way" ~ Bob Dylan Last edited by skip spence; 11-28-2008 at 12:26 PM.