The Middle Earth Popularity Cup - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lalwendë · 11-21-2008, 12:31 PM

++Glaurung

He's a Dragon. No contest.

Dragons are The Coolest Thing Ever.

Shame he was up against Thorin who is also very, very cool and bad-tempered and bearded and things that I usually like....but Dragons win.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mormegil

Not truly, it was Deagol...

But do you really think if Gollum had kept it that it would ever have been 'dealt with'? That's what was important to me

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Isn't this just a banal fantasy of the nerds? "One day I will also rule the world with my might even if nobody pays attention to me in this RL of mine"?

Groin Redbeard · 11-21-2008, 01:58 PM

This dwarf is described as being very haughty, stern, and officious. He has a talent for singing and can play the harp. He wears a gold chain and has a very long beard. He refers to his homes in the Blue Mountains as "poor lodgings in exile." Even though he is quite old (even for a Dwarf) by the time of The Hobbit, he is very capable and a cunning warrior, if not a particularly inspiring or clever leader. I love the way he leads his men with Gandalf, and then without the wizards help, to reclaim their lost kingdom of Erebor (a moon-shot you might say). Although Thorin's character is disappointing at times, I still think that he was overall right in his assumptions. Not really a great leader, but he was a great Dwarf nonetheless.

++Thorin

Gollum the Great · 11-21-2008, 02:04 PM

Well I like Thorin a lot. He rocks. I like Glaurung a lot. He rocks I like dwarves a lot. They rock. I like dragons a lot. They rock.

*conflict of preferences in my head*

++Glaurung

Morthoron · 11-21-2008, 02:14 PM

I'm not much a fan of Dwarves, and Thorin and the Dwarves were pretty much dead wood on the journey from the Shire to Erebor.

But talking malevolent dragons with hypnotic sight and limitless sarcasm? And the cowardly way Turin stabbed him in the belly? Pffft! Some hero! No contest here....

++Glaurung

Tuor in Gondolin · 11-21-2008, 03:18 PM

Two generally not llikeble characters, but Thorin
does show a generaly courteous character (generally!)
and was brave and died well, whereas Glaurung has
zero positive qualities, unlike Smaug

so ++ Thorin Oakenshield

Tuor in Gondolin · 11-21-2008, 03:31 PM

A thought, if later someone (less lazy then me)
runs an "interesting and not totally unlikeable
bad guy" contest it could be interesting.
For example, in TH the three stone trolls, the old
fat spider, and The Master. And earlier ME Mim redux, Eol
and Son, Feanor?, Ar-Pharazon, Curufin, etc.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 11-21-2008, 03:36 PM

This is not quite an easy question for me. I do not like these two in particularly that much, neither of them, to be sure rightaway. Though, after some thinking: Thorin has lots of positive (and negative, but interesting) character traits, while Glaurung has of course nice persuading personality and everything... but well, let's face it: he is a worm. He is not a dragon. I would have voted Smaug immediately. I would have voted Glaurung too, I think, had he had wings. But he is a worm! Come on, people. Crawling on the ground? How inappropriate for the Father of Dragons! Such a disgrace! A big, fat dust-eating worm? Down with him!

++Thorin

Aganzir · 11-21-2008, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

Wouldn't this be a bad thing? There is an old (and I do mean oold) saying in my country: "Pride has hurt, starved, and killed than all the other injustices in the world combined." This remark certainly fits Feanor and his sons, their petty pride causing the death of many a good man, elf, and dwarf alike.

No, to me pride has always been the golden mean between conceit and humility. Fëanor and his sons took it maybe a bit too far, but it's that unwillingness to repent which makes them so irresistible (especially Curufin, but I like Maglor, too).
And this is not to say I should like all sorts of pride - I agree there are kinds that are quite dangerous by themselves.

++ Thorin

I find dragons annoying and boring. Reading too much fantasy should maybe be blamed for that, although I admit Tolkien's dragons have a bit more edge than average to them. However, when it's between a dwarf and a dragon, the dwarf will get my vote.

Besides I like Thorin. He's one of those characters who are easy to sympathize with although they are not flawless. Every time I've read The Hobbit I've sided with him when he threw Bilbo out. It was Thorin who had been offended so Bilbo should have no reason to complain, rather be just happy it didn't end up worse.

edit: xed with Tuor (hey Curufin's not a bad guy!

) and Legz (you are such a racist!

)

Nogrod · 11-21-2008, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

++Glaurung
He's a Dragon. No contest.
Dragons are The Coolest Thing Ever.
Shame he was up against Thorin who is also very, very cool and bad-tempered and bearded and things that I usually like....but Dragons win.

My words exactly.

It was a funny thing I heard from the radio last week (okay, I downloaded it from the Fora tv). There was a catholic professor who discussed his faith and he made a remark going something like this (I'm not going to try and find the exact quote as the program lasts something like 1½ hours): the catholic-based literature is interesting as it has all the hues and colours of the world with the contradictions and "unbelievables" and everything's a mess. But with the protestant literature only the baddies are interesting as the goodies are just plain bores.

Even if I am a non-believer, I have been raised in a protestant society and not even Tolkien's catholicism and his spirit as a writer can move my head from voting

++ Glaurung

Goodies are most of the time uninteresting. Thorin less so as there are many traits in him that make him stand out from the traditional goodie-gallery (hurray catholicism?

). Sadly just not enough to be an opponent to Glaurung...

How are you deciding on these match-ups Skip? I would have loved to see both of these in the next round! Fex. Sauron of the LotR is beaten by Thorin with no effort. Okay, Sauron of the Silmarillion is more of a challenge as there he has something like a personality... how did the prof. lose the grasp of such a magnificient character in the LotR?

Maybe I'll open a thread for this last question as it really started bothering me right now as I thought of it...

the phantom · 11-21-2008, 04:24 PM

Glaurung took over Nargothrond. Thorin's done nothing so astounding.

And because of the important part he played in the tale that may be my favorite of all (The Children of Hurin), I must vote-

++Glaurung

skip spence · 11-22-2008, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

How are you deciding on these match-ups Skip?

First I chose 84 characters from JRRT's books, more or less arbitrarily. Then I E-mailed a poll and a questionnaire to 764 randomly selected Tolkien-fans, asking for their input on questions regarding the complexity, importance and charm of the characters in the list. Using the information gathered I came up with a list of 32 characters, 8 of which were seeded in order to avoid having the top names come up against each other in the early rounds. More or less like that. More less than more maybe.

Back to the subject. I never cared much for Thorin to be honest. When I first read the Hobbit he really infuriated me with his pompous, greedy and stubborn ways. Now I've warmed up to him in partly, but hey, Glaurung is such a badass. I think his bane, the sneaky and spineless Turin, said it best:

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoH

His power is rather in the evil spirit that dwells within him than in the might of his body, great though that be

Smaug liked to have crispy dwarves for supper. I bet his mighty ancestor is no different and Thorin is a just a pre-dinner snack for the great wurm:

++Glaurung (the score is 6-5 to the dragon at present)

(Admittedly he did get a mouthful at the Nirnaeth though)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legate

Come on, people. Crawling on the ground? How inappropriate for the Father of Dragons! Such a disgrace! A big, fat dust-eating worm? Down with him!

Hey now, what did he need to fly for? Flying is for sissies really. Like starlings, butterflies and sparrows.

Nerwen · 11-22-2008, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skip spence

First I chose 84 characters from JRRT's books, more or less arbitrarily. Then I E-mailed a poll and a questionnaire to 764 randomly selected Tolkien-fans, asking for their input on questions regarding the complexity, importance and charm of the characters in the list. Using the information gathered I came up with a list of 32 characters, 8 of which were seeded in order to avoid having the top names come up against each other in the early rounds.

You're kidding, right? Right?

skip spence · 11-22-2008, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerwen

You're kidding, right? Right?

Like I said, I did it more or less like that. Much more less than more, admittedly.

skip spence · 11-22-2008, 12:14 PM

Glaurung has defeated Thorin by six votes to five.

Match 7 of Round 1:
Beren is said to be the greatest Man ever to walk Middle Earth and he's got the hottest missus in history too. But is that enough against Boromir, who despite falling for the temptation of the ring is a celebrated member of the fellowship?

Boromir vs. Beren

mormegil · 11-22-2008, 12:43 PM

++Beren

If I ever have a son I wish to name him Beren. Plus I'm mad at Boromir88

11-21-2008, 01:58 PM	#2
Groin Redbeard Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Facing the world's troubles with Christ's hope! Posts: 1,635	This dwarf is described as being very haughty, stern, and officious. He has a talent for singing and can play the harp. He wears a gold chain and has a very long beard. He refers to his homes in the Blue Mountains as "poor lodgings in exile." Even though he is quite old (even for a Dwarf) by the time of The Hobbit, he is very capable and a cunning warrior, if not a particularly inspiring or clever leader. I love the way he leads his men with Gandalf, and then without the wizards help, to reclaim their lost kingdom of Erebor (a moon-shot you might say). Although Thorin's character is disappointing at times, I still think that he was overall right in his assumptions. Not really a great leader, but he was a great Dwarf nonetheless. ++Thorin __________________ I heard the bells on Christmas Day. Their old, familiar carols play. And wild and sweet the words repeatof peace on earth, good-will to men! ~Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

11-21-2008, 02:04 PM	#3
Gollum the Great Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The Pinnacle of my own might Posts: 386	Well I like Thorin a lot. He rocks. I like Glaurung a lot. He rocks I like dwarves a lot. They rock. I like dragons a lot. They rock. conflict of preferences in my head ++Glaurung __________________ 'It just shows you how true it is that one-half the world doesn't knows how the other three-quarters lives.' Bertie, The Code of the Woosters, by P. G. Wodewouse

11-21-2008, 02:14 PM	#4
Morthoron Curmudgeonly Wordwraith Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits Posts: 2,515	I'm not much a fan of Dwarves, and Thorin and the Dwarves were pretty much dead wood on the journey from the Shire to Erebor. But talking malevolent dragons with hypnotic sight and limitless sarcasm? And the cowardly way Turin stabbed him in the belly? Pffft! Some hero! No contest here.... ++Glaurung __________________ And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.

11-21-2008, 03:18 PM	#5
Tuor in Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Southeast Pennsylvania Posts: 3,651	Two generally not llikeble characters, but Thorin does show a generaly courteous character (generally!) and was brave and died well, whereas Glaurung has zero positive qualities, unlike Smaug so ++ Thorin Oakenshield __________________ The poster formerly known as Tuor of Gondolin. Walking To Rivendell and beyond 12,555 miles passed Nt./Day 5: Pass the beacon on Nardol, the 'Fire Hill.' Last edited by Tuor in Gondolin; 11-21-2008 at 03:33 PM.

11-21-2008, 03:31 PM	#6
Tuor in Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Southeast Pennsylvania Posts: 3,651	A thought, if later someone (less lazy then me) runs an "interesting and not totally unlikeable bad guy" contest it could be interesting. For example, in TH the three stone trolls, the old fat spider, and The Master. And earlier ME Mim redux, Eol and Son, Feanor?, Ar-Pharazon, Curufin, etc. __________________ The poster formerly known as Tuor of Gondolin. Walking To Rivendell and beyond 12,555 miles passed Nt./Day 5: Pass the beacon on Nardol, the 'Fire Hill.' Last edited by Tuor in Gondolin; 11-21-2008 at 03:34 PM.

11-21-2008, 03:36 PM	#7
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	This is not quite an easy question for me. I do not like these two in particularly that much, neither of them, to be sure rightaway. Though, after some thinking: Thorin has lots of positive (and negative, but interesting) character traits, while Glaurung has of course nice persuading personality and everything... but well, let's face it: he is a worm. He is not a dragon. I would have voted Smaug immediately. I would have voted Glaurung too, I think, had he had wings. But he is a worm! Come on, people. Crawling on the ground? How inappropriate for the Father of Dragons! Such a disgrace! A big, fat dust-eating worm? Down with him! ++Thorin __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

11-21-2008, 04:24 PM	#10
the phantom Beloved Shadow Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Stadium Posts: 5,971	Glaurung took over Nargothrond. Thorin's done nothing so astounding. And because of the important part he played in the tale that may be my favorite of all (The Children of Hurin), I must vote- ++Glaurung __________________ the phantom has posted. This thread is now important.

11-22-2008, 12:14 PM	#14
skip spence shadow of a doubt Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Back on the streets Posts: 1,125	Glaurung has defeated Thorin by six votes to five. Match 7 of Round 1: Beren is said to be the greatest Man ever to walk Middle Earth and he's got the hottest missus in history too. But is that enough against Boromir, who despite falling for the temptation of the ring is a celebrated member of the fellowship? Boromir vs. Beren __________________ "You can always come back, but you can't come back all the way" ~ Bob Dylan

11-22-2008, 12:43 PM	#15
mormegil Maundering Mage Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,651	++Beren If I ever have a son I wish to name him Beren. Plus I'm mad at Boromir88 __________________ “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”