The Middle Earth Popularity Cup

[skip spence]

Oh, it's all over. Good win for Mim that, I didn't see that one coming.

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel

++Pippin
He makes me laugh (something I can use after the last few months), and I think he of all the LotR characters demonstrates the most accessible "humanity." He makes mistakes, he can be foolish and short-sighted, yet he can also summon courage even when his knees are quaking, and dignity. He is not servile, yet he can be humble. He needs to grow up a bit, but then, don't we all in one way or another?

Not much love for Pippin on this board it seems and I'm glad someone is on his side. Alas, your were just a little too late as Morthoron drove the last nail into his coffin. First to five votes wins.

I've also an announcement to make. Morgoth has been sent into the void and can no longer participate in the tournament. He will be replaced by Maedhros, eldest son of Fëanor.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

++Tuor

Since Sauron made the short-sighted mistake of linking his power and nearly all his existence into a small thing that could be taken from him and destroyed, while Tuor may have been the only mortal to be granted the Elven kind of immortality. Plenty of people have made ill-fated "doomsday weapons" (though perhaps Sauron has the distinction of being the first), while Tuor did what no one else has, before or since. As far as we know.

[mormegil]

Skip, you may want to consider upping the vote total or making a time limit as this thread gains in popularity. I'm not sure you knew what you started. Some of us, me and others, have a lot of fun here and this will continue to grow. My recommendation is have at least 10 votes or 1 full 24 hour period.

[the phantom]

Tuor and Sauron are both heavy hitters. I'm sad to see them matched up in the first round. Oh well- a decision must be made.

Tuor was a good person, and certainly achieved stature through his wisdom and might. But let's be honest here... Sauron destroyed the most powerful civilization man ever built (Numenor).

And if that wasn't enough, then he brought about the death of Gil Galad, the death of Elendil, coordinated the fall of the kingdom of Arnor, and very nearly took over the world!

The only reason why Sauron didn't take over all of Middle Earth was divine intervention. Remember folks, Frodo failed to destroy the Ring. Sauron won. But then Eru stuck his hand in and whoops- Gollum trips into the lava. And Gandalf, the greatest mover against Sauron, was dead and gone, but Eru sent him back with a power boost.

In other words, God himself had to step in and give the good guys a helping hand to beat Sauron. That's pretty darn dominating.

And lastly, without Sauron there would be no Tol-In-Gaurhoth, i.e. NO WEREWOLF GAMES on the Downs!! I think that was his greatest act.

++Sauron

[skip spence]

Glad you're enjoying the thread, I thought it would fall flat on its face there for a while. How about this, I set a deadline, let's say 12.00 AM board-time, and give each voting-session 24 hours to conclude. If none of the characters has received 5 votes by then, the voting will be allowed to continue until one of them does. If a characters or both receive 5 votes or more before that deadline, voting will be allowed to continue until the deadline passes. How's that?

If you're okay with this arrangement the deadline of the Sauron-Tuor voting will be tomorrow at 12.00 AM board-time (I dunno which time-zone that is).

[Thinlómien]

++Sauron

He's a werewolf!

I mean... it's serious this time.

But anyway, Tuor must be one of the most boring heroes in Tolkien's work. Really, what is there in him? However mighty warrior he was, he strikes me as a loser with very little personality or anything interesting. Okay, he had a special task and was the special favourite of Ulmo, my favourite Vala, but I'm afraid that's not enough to make him interesting in any way. He just lacks distinctive personality, that's the problem.

Sauron, on the other hand.... he's twisted. He's rather boring maybe in LotR as he's reduced to being merely "the enemy", but in the Silmarillion and the UT he's gory and very fascinating... All that cunning, all those beautiful lies, the immense charisma, the extreme cruelty (Gorlim and Eilinel - that's really the most horror stuff Tolkien ever wrote) and of course, he was the lord of werewolves and also, a mighty singer. You've got to admit he was pretty darn cool before he became very boringly just "the Dark Lord". (Also, I love the name "the Necromancer", more so actually in the Finnish translation. It's been translated with the word that corresponds to "witch" and using it of men is totally appropriate, but rather rare. It always intrigued me. Also, Dol Gûldur is just really creepy however little we know about it...)

edit: xed with tp and skip - skippie, that arrangement sounds good

[Aganzir]

Skippie, when you scroll down the page to see the Downs clock, you also see which timezone you're in (GMT +1 I believe, since we are GMT +2).

++ Tuor

He's one of my favourite characters; his story has always had a certain appeal to me. I like him for his life as an outlaw and his wanderings, and the sea aspect is also great - I just love Nevrast. Besides, Idril & Tuor's story is definitely my favourite of the great love stories in Middle-earth.
Sauron is, after all, quite an... empty character, who lacked a will of his own and was lured by Morgoth. I don't know, it's just a bit hard to take a baddie seriously when he's but a puppet to his master of old.

edit: xed with Loomy

[Morthoron]

Tuor? Bah! He led a charmed life, got the elf girl and lived happily ever after with little or no energy expended.

I will have to go with ++Sauron, but only up to the point where he escaped the wreck of Numenor. After that, he is a faceless evil and rather boring.

[skip spence]

I will also vote.

While Lommy (yes, that Gorlim and Eilinel episode was delightfully diabolical) and the Phantom (I agree, on a level playing-field Sauron would have won but Eru messed things up for him real good) have come up with great arguments in favour of Sauron, I still have to side with Tuor. He's not boring to me at all and I feel I get into his head pretty well reading the long prose-tale. I, like Aganzir, enjoy his wanderings as an outlaw in the wild, his appreciation of the beauty of Middle Earth, particularly the sea, and his strong desire for freedom. It's a real shame JRRT never got around to finish the Tuor-tale.

Unlike other good characters such as Aragorn and Faramir, Tuor doesn't do "the right thing" as a natural necessity either; his basic character is quite like his cousin Turin I think, but unlike him he learns from mistakes and accepts good advice, making him grow.

++Tuor

Originally Posted by Lommy

That arrangement sounds good

So be it then.

[mormegil]

Sauron is now 5 and Tuor 4

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Very astute observation by Morthothon

++ Mim

To me. in many respects he is reminiscent of Shylock in the Merchant of Venice, a tragic figure caught up in revenge and grief. He's more of a layered character than Pippin,

As for this match, guess who?
+ + Tuor

Hey, the guy had a tough childhood and adolescence, but kept
his cool way better then his hothead cousin.

Oh, and Skip Spence, how could that great conversationalist and all around
bon vivant Smaug be left out of the contest?

[skip spence]

That's it, despite a late scare Gandalf has defeated Tom Bombadill 10-8. Perhaps Tom will find comfort in Goldberry's warm bosom.

Match 10 of Round 1:

Finally it's time for the first woman to enter the competition. Eowyn, the shield maiden, is up against lore-master Elrond.

Elrond vs. Eowyn

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Finally it's time for the first woman to enter the competition. Elrond vs. Eowyn

Ummm...which one is the woman?

Sorry, was having a movie moment. Actually, I'll go with ++Elrond, who is more feminine than the manly Eowyn.

[Thinlómien]

What a difficult question! I don't know... Elrond is a great person, no doubt, but he's also a bit boring. I like Éowyn's personality and her story is most touching, but her end kind of irks me. Why does it have to be so that a woman only finds peace when she gets married and learns to accept the place society has given her? But if I put away my feminist grudgings, I actually like her, and even her story... Hmm... Must think about this.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

This will take some thought. Book Elrond vs. Eowyn
(book or movie) is close, but not movie Agent Elrond .

[Aganzir]

++ Elrond

I despise a woman who would die because the random man she had a crush on didn't love her in return. And her ending is lame. Female characters like that annoy me. A male character like that would annoy me as well, but not as much because he wouldn't fit so well inside the man stereotype.

On the other hand, Elrond was the son of Eärendil (yet one fave character) and was raised by the sons of Fëanor. And all that First Age stuff. And Second Age.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Since the theme here is "popularity" I'll go with
+ + Eowyn .

Once she got over her no doubt
testosterone pill popping valkeyrie phase she'd be
a lot more fun at parties then Elrond, who no doubt
continued to suffer from early childhood
kidnapped trauma syndrome.

[the phantom]

This is one of the easiest match-ups I've seen.

Elrond is the descendent of the Kings of the Noldor, the Kings of the Sindar, the House of Hador, and the House of Beor. He spent time with the sons of Feanor (I love them), fought beside Gil-galad, and founded the refuge of Rivendell.

And after retiring from warfare, he became the greatest healer in Middle Earth.

It is because of Elrond that there is a King in Gondor, for he preserved the line of Isildur over many years, and even took in Aragorn and raised him as a son.

He is one of the wisest and most learned in lore of any in Middle Earth. The council which decided the fate of the Ring wasn't in Lothlorien, or Minas Tirith- it was at Elrond's house.

And finally, the trump card-

Elrond controls a flippin RIVER! Who the heck in Middle Earth can do that? Must be that Ainu blood.

Elrond is amazing. And compared to most all of the other big-time Elves, he is much less proud.

++Elrond