Nazgûl clothes: visible and invisible

[Alfirin]

Oh, okay, my mind must be getting rusty.

as for the point of this article here are a few addional thoughts

While, Nazgul may be able to change thier inner robes, I doubt they do, or at least do often. Since breathing seems optional (and as suggested earlier food is likey optional too) I imagine that in general Nagul do not sweat much if at all (likewise they probably do engage in any other bodily activities) so thier robes likey stay wearable far longer than they would on an ordinary man.) None the less the robes are likely chaged from time to time, since unless the bodily preservation powers provided by the ring also extend to them the clothes would evetually rot away and crumble (I know fabric can last ceturies from time to time, but this usally only happen when it is kept in special circumstances (perpetually in low moisture, or pickled in peat juice. anything a wraith would be wearing would be subject to the full range of enviorments and would likey rot as fast as any other clothes.
Also there are no doubt times when it is advatageos to wear other clothing besides the cloaks. Certainly the Warith who called on Gloin (assuming it was a wraith, opion here seems to be divided) would likey have dressed as befits an ambassador; he was trying to get on Gloin's good side, and keeping his dusty traveling cloak on in his audience might have been misenterpreted as an insult (though he likely wore a wide hat to keep his face (or in this case, lack of face) in shadow (unless wraith magic incudes a spell to temporarily put the image of a body onto thier form)
Also one minor correction. Just as we have esabished that a Nazgul without his cloak is not in a tecnical sense, naked, I would maintain that one wothut the black riding boots is not, technically bootless. The Naxguls wore robes in thier "invisible form", they likey wore boots as well (or maybe slippers of the kind worn by the well to do indoors in the middle ages (more like leather socks in construction); the boots we see were likely worn over these. Just as riding a horse would be uncofotable naked, this would also apply to riding one barefoot.

Finallu one last question. We know that as the Witch king of Angmar the lord of the Nagul wore a crown of iron which hwas visible even in the real world. my question is twofold 1. is the crown seen on the WK in the ring world the same crown or an earlier crown (I seem to remember something about that crown being silver or gold) and 2. might some of the other nazgul have worn crowns as well. The WK wore a crown becuse he was king of angmar not because he was lord of the Nazgul. While not kings I seem to recall that several of the other Nazgul were, in thier lives fairly high up individuals, princes, lords and other nobles, all well in thier rights to wear crowns and coronets of one sort or another (come to think of it wasn't Khamul a king amoung the Easterlings)

[Gordis]

Some more musings on the main subject. It seems the main question in this thread is:
What exactly does Frodo see with the Ring on: 1. material Hroar of those who dwell in the World of Shadow or 2. their Fëar? In the first case all the clothes revealed in the Shadow World would be tangible and material, in the second case the garments would be mere illusion, intangible, spectral. In the first case the invisible bodies of the "unclad" nazgul would be clad in material, invisible clothes; in the second case the "unclad" nazgul would be literally naked.

Alfirin seemingly favors the first opinion (as I did myself in the opening post).

Originally Posted by Alfirin

While, Nazgul may be able to change their inner robes, I doubt they do, or at least do often. Since breathing seems optional (and as suggested earlier food is likey optional too) I imagine that in general Nagul do not sweat much if at all (likewise they probably do engage in any other bodily activities) so thier robes likey stay wearable far longer than they would on an ordinary man.) None the less the robes are likely chaged from time to time, since unless the bodily preservation powers provided by the ring also extend to them the clothes would evetually rot away and crumble (I know fabric can last ceturies from time to time, but this usally only happen when it is kept in special circumstances (perpetually in low moisture, or pickled in peat juice. anything a wraith would be wearing would be subject to the full range of enviorments and would likey rot as fast as any other clothes.
Also one minor correction. Just as we have esabished that a Nazgul without his cloak is not in a tecnical sense, naked, I would maintain that one wothut the black riding boots is not, technically bootless. The Naguls wore robes in thier "invisible form", they likely wore boots as well (or maybe slippers of the kind worn by the well to do indoors in the middle ages (more like leather socks in construction); the boots we see were likely worn over these. Just as riding a horse would be uncofotable naked, this would also apply to riding one barefoot.

All this seems quite logical. I totally see it: trunks and pegs with invisible clothes in Minas Morgul, lesser wraiths under the competent direction of the late King Earnur busily mending robes and pants, sewing new soles to nazgul slippers….

Only… While all these fascinating details would be quite appropriate for some fantasy writers (like Herbert Wells), it is so very un-Tolkien-like, I can't even imagine that he could have intended this.

Moreover, let us consider the further implications of the "invisible clothes" theory. Ok, let us suppose the nazgul first don the invisible inner clothes, then cover them with ordinary visible cloaks and boots. But what about Calaquendi Elves? They are also plainly visible in the World of Shadow, but they hardly have any invisible clothes to wear under their ordinary garments. Yet the eyes of all creatures of the world of Shadow are able to see beneath the real-world clothes. So, would Glorfindel appear naked to a nazgul? Would Galadriel? Hmm… the latter would definitely be interesting… Just imagine: Galadriel expects a visit from Glorfindel and for decency sake she frantically strives to obtain some casts-off from Minas Morgul. Crazy?- yes.

I am afraid there goes the first theory….

[Bêthberry]

Thanks to Morthoron, Gordis and Boro88 for their thoughts on grey. For a colour lacking hue, it certainly carries a fair bit of symbolism.

We know that grey represents some kind of neutral stance of indifference or balance. It's not a hot to trot colour--limbo indeed. This could represent either calmness and coolness or unthinking routine. (In the case of Gandalf the Grey, I always thought it represented a challenging limitation on the power of the maiar.) It is also the colour of intellect--"grey matter"--and the colour of age-"grey hairs". (Well, Gandalf and the Nazgul are all very old.) Those who see things only in shades of black and white are challenged by those who see "shades of grey", the fine points of articulation between two opposing positions. Again, depending on one's point of view, this is either positive or negative. In folklore, denizens of the fairy world are often associated with grey and dusk or dawn, those immaterial times between light and dark. (Both Gandalf and the Nazgul belong to this realm.) In a certain subculture, grey denotes a particular fetishism-bondage. (It's possible to argue that the Nazgul are in bondage, but not that they belong to this subculture.) Grey is also the colour of ashes and penitence, contrition, Lent. (Mortification? One could argue that Gandalf operates under mortification until he becomes the White.)

I suppose we could say that Gandalf would obviously be a warm grey (tinged with yellow) while the Dark Riders would be a cool grey (tinged with blue), yet how interesting that the spirit realm of Middle-earth combines both the great wizard and the horrible adversaries of Light. To me, it makes Sauron's experiments with Rings even more ominous, that he is perverting the existence of the Maiar. No wonder Gandalf was so frightened himself by the Ring.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Thanks to Morthoron, Gordis and Boro88 for their thoughts on grey. For a colour lacking hue, it certainly carries a fair bit of symbolism.

We know that grey represents some kind of neutral stance of indifference or balance. It's not a hot to trot colour--limbo indeed. This could represent either calmness and coolness or unthinking routine. (In the case of Gandalf the Grey, I always thought it represented a challenging limitation on the power of the maiar.) It is also the colour of intellect--"grey matter"--and the colour of age-"grey hairs". (Well, Gandalf and the Nazgul are all very old.) Those who see things only in shades of black and white are challenged by those who see "shades of grey", the fine points of articulation between two opposing positions. Again, depending on one's point of view, this is either positive or negative. In folklore, denizens of the fairy world are often associated with grey and dusk or dawn, those immaterial times between light and dark. (Both Gandalf and the Nazgul belong to this realm.) In a certain subculture, grey denotes a particular fetishism-bondage. (It's possible to argue that the Nazgul are in bondage, but not that they belong to this subculture.) Grey is also the colour of ashes and penitence, contrition, Lent. (Mortification? One could argue that Gandalf operates under mortification until he becomes the White.)

I suppose we could say that Gandalf would obviously be a warm grey (tinged with yellow) while the Dark Riders would be a cool grey (tinged with blue), yet how interesting that the spirit realm of Middle-earth combines both the great wizard and the horrible adversaries of Light. To me, it makes Sauron's experiments with Rings even more ominous, that he is perverting the existence of the Maiar. No wonder Gandalf was so frightened himself by the Ring.

And continuing on that train of thought, how interesting that Saruman's experiments result in a rainbow of colour instead of grey, misty liminality....