Tears of Mirrormere Discussion Thread

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I would agree with most of what Groin and Durelin said on the subject of following Balin, these "military leaders", and probably Balin's closest friends. Obviously, it will be also easier to get the events out there rolling just with the smaller number of Dwarves, there may be also need to send somebody to call upon reinforcements when it shows up that there is more Orcs than what is good for them etc., etc.... whatever the Mods also may have planned, for that matter.

And as for hurrying up, I am of course not pushing anybody to hurry hurry finish their character (I am actually surprised that the bios have been done so fast). Better to take your time and make your character the way you know you are really going to like him and know you would like to unfold his personality in this direction you set...

[Gwathagor]

I'm all for just a few dwarves going with Balin to the Mirrormere. Why does he choose that day to visit the pool?

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by Legate

And as for hurrying up, I am of course not pushing anybody to hurry hurry finish their character

I know you were just teasing.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

I'm all for just a few dwarves going with Balin to the Mirrormere. Why does he choose that day to visit the pool?

I have no idea, but is it not possible - as it's the tenth of November, which is close to the end of autumn - that it was the Durin's day for that year? That would make a lot of sense. I cannot look it up now, but in The Hobbit chapter 3 when Elrond reads the runes, Thorin explains what exactly Durin's day is and that it is something like the last day before winter when the moon shows in the sky during the day or something like that. If we could determine if it was possible that year to be the 10th Nov... but I find it probable.

[Gwathagor]

Yes, I was thinking it might be Durin's Day or something similar.

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Yes, I was thinking it might be Durin's Day or something similar.

Originally Posted by Legate

I have no idea, but is it not possible - as it's the tenth of November, which is close to the end of autumn - that it was the Durin's day for that year? That would make a lot of sense. I cannot look it up now, but in The Hobbit chapter 3 when Elrond reads the runes, Thorin explains what exactly Durin's day is and that it is something like the last day before winter when the moon shows in the sky during the day or something like that. If we could determine if it was possible that year to be the 10th Nov... but I find it probable.

Ah, you little mind readers you! I was just fancying the idea, that on the last day that the Dwarves are alive, in the Chamber of Marzabul, they see the moon and sun in the sky through the tunnel of light that focuses on Balin’s tomb. I forgot that we had some scholars in our midst, but I don’t think November 10th was Durin’s Day.

Holiday of the Dwarves, Durin's Day, occurred only when the Moon and the Sun were in the sky together on the Dwarves' New Year's Day - which was the first day of the last Moon of autumn. By the end of the Third Age, the Dwarves no longer had the ability to calculate when such a phenomenon would occur. According to my calculations, the Autumn in the northern hemisphere is assumed to start on the autumnal equinox, generally on September 22nd, the season runs until about December 21st. The first day of the last new moon of Autumn could thus take place any time between about November 22 and December 21.

That’s my two cents on the matter, though don’t take my word for it, I’m not entirely sure that I calculated correctly. However, as to Balin issuing from Moria to look upon Mirrormere I think that this was just an urge that he had. Years ago Durin looked upon Mirrormere and saw a crown of stars appear above his head in the reflection. The Dwarves set a pillar up to commemorate the spot on which these events occurred and it was here that Balin died (I hope I’m not preaching to the choir on this).

It is possible that Balin was going to give a speech of importance to his leaders and wanted a moment to meditate alone at the site on which their (meaning Durin’s Folk) greatest leader had had his inspiration to found the colony of Khazad-dum.

Anyway, your new character looks great Legate! I trust that this will be the Dwarf who will survive until the very end? Thanks for getting yours up too, Ilya, it looks grand! Kath, the pressure’s on!

P.S. Whoever want's to take up Loni or Nali as a secondary character better make up their mind quick. It looks like we are winding down here with the preparations.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

It is possible that Balin was going to give a speech of importance to his leaders and wanted a moment to meditate alone at the site on which their (meaning Durin’s Folk) greatest leader had had his inspiration to found the colony of Khazad-dum.

Possible. He had been there for several years, though, so why then on that particular day? The dwarves were a fairly ritualistic race, and it seems at any rate possible that there was some specific reason for his visit to Mirrormere.

[Thinlómien]

Alright, here comes my secondary character (whom I can hopefully kill off before the end )...

NAME: Vigdis

AGE: 147

RACE: Dwarf

GENDER: female

WEAPONS: A beautiful, heavy sword with runes of protection as a decoration.

APPEARANCE: Vigdis' hair is black and she keeps it on a single braid that reaches below her waist. She has a broad, plain face the only striking feature of which are the dark grey deep-set eyes that betray little of what goes on behind them. She's of an average height for a Dwarf woman and a little sturdier.

PERSONALITY/STRENGTHS/WEAKNESSES: Vigdis is a skilled mason dedicated to her work. She's hard-working and ambitious, which has enabled her to achieve a lot in her profession. She also makes sculptures of stone, but doesn't regard them as anything else but the crude work of an amateur.

Vigdis is reserved and honest and she has an exceptionally good memory. It has aided her in many ways in the course of her life, but it has little by little turned her grudging and spiteful. This unpleasant trait in her character is only enforced by the typical Dwarven determination and relentlessness that live strongly in her.

HISTORY: Vigdis was born in the Iron Hills on the last day of year 2846. She was the only child of a famous warrior and his wife, and became disappointment to her father just because of her gender. When she grew older, he wanted to train her in the arts of war nevertheless. Her mother considered this very inappropriate, for Dwarf women do not go to war. Therefore, she left her husband and moved to another settlement, taking her young daughter with her.

However, Vigdis became a disappointment for her mother too. She would have liked to see her become a scribe and a rune-master, but Vigdis could not have been less interested in ink and dusty tomes. Instead, she seeked to be apprenticed to a master mason, and to the surprise of her mother, was accepted.

For the next several decades, she studied her craft and developed her working methods. Before long it became evident that she had surpassed her master both in knowledge and skill and a rivalry appeared between them. The mutual trust and respect were turning into jealousy and forced courtesy. When Dáin became the King under the Mountain, Vigdis was ready to join those of his folk who followed him.

Erebor changed Vigdis' life. There was plenty of work for a willing and able craftsman like her and she could finally lead a life without the pressure of her family or her tutor. Also, it was in the Kingdom under the Mountain that she met Balin, son of Fundin, and fell in love with him. It was evident, though, that Lord Balin desired no wife. Proud and stubborn like the womanfolk of her people tend to be, Vigdis decided that if he would not have her, she would take no other husband for no one else would fill her standards. So she nurtured her love in silence and dedicated herself even more to her craft. But when Balin announced that he would go to Khazad-dûm, there was no question about Vigdis following. The colony has given Vigdis more freedom and more work than she could ever have imagined and thanks to the continuous skirmishes with Orcs, she has been able to refresh her skills with the sword as well.
______________________

LINKED TO PLAYER - CHARACTER LIST ~*~ Pio

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

First: Yay, your secondary character seems even better than I thought, Lommy. I say, great to have her there. (And as for me, yes, I did have to pick those names What's wrong with them? They are Dwarvish a lot!)

Second:

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

Holiday of the Dwarves, Durin's Day, occurred only when the Moon and the Sun were in the sky together on the Dwarves' New Year's Day - which was the first day of the last Moon of autumn. By the end of the Third Age, the Dwarves no longer had the ability to calculate when such a phenomenon would occur. According to my calculations, the Autumn in the northern hemisphere is assumed to start on the autumnal equinox, generally on September 22nd, the season runs until about December 21st. The first day of the last new moon of Autumn could thus take place any time between about November 22 and December 21

I cannot count at all and I did not count this by myself, but if that may be of any help to anyone (who could for example deduce something from it ):

On the year Bilbo came to Erebor (2841), Durin's Day was not later than on 30th October (according to Karen Wynn Fonstad's Atlas of Middle-Earth) - and certainly somewhat later than 9th October, when the Dwarves left the Lake-Town.

According to the Encyclopedia of Arda, "The first day of the Dwarves' year was calculated according to the last new moon of autumn (that is, the new moon that occurs within two weeks of 6 October, on a modern calendar)." That would be, according to the same website, 15th October in LotR calendar, which is the number relevant for us.
The page also shows the Durin's Days for the current time, and the dates shown are between 22 Sept - 18 Oct (in LotR counting that would be 13 Sept - 27 Oct).
(Does this seem curious to anyone? Just asking. But at least, the datum of Durin's Day in TH fits - very closely - the timeframe set here.)

So, I have no idea about this and all and I am saying only what I read from these resources: it seems that usually, Durin's Day would occur rather sometime during late October or such. And thus, not by the time we need it. Bah. Horrible, actually. (I shouldn't have started with that anyway.) I haven't even managed to think (by trying to switch the date of 10th November into various calendars ) of any trick how to make the date fit into the timeframe of our tale.

In any case, together with Gwath I would say that I am inclined to think there was some special reason for Balin to go to look into the Mirrormere on that particular day.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, double-post, which may help us and also perhaps ignore the rant above (I spent about three quarters an hour with searching all this stuff... gah) I decided, just when leaving, to look up also on Wikipedia.

Does not anybody have some kind of HoME with calendars with marked Durin's Day for each year of the Third Age, or something like that? It would make things a lot easier...

Anyway, the Wikipedia - what surprised me was the information I found there, which differed completely from the above but went close to Groin's countings:

The first day of the last new moon of Autumn could thus take place any time between about November 22 and December 21.

But then it continues:

However, the seasons in Tolkien's work have the four solar markers at the center of the seasons, not the beginning. For example, Midsummer occurs on the summer solstice, Midwinter on the winter solstice, etc. Autumn would therefore begin midway between the summer solstice and the autumnal equinox in early August and end midway between the autumnal equinox and the winter solstice, usually around November 6.

That sounds a lot better, because in the LotR calendar, Nov 6 would be Nov 16 (not much of a difference for us anyway). Thus, our Nov 10, when Balin dies, would be really "around" the date supported by Wikipedia.

I have no idea, though, as I don't see into these countings at all, which information is more relevant. But we may as well take for relevant the one that fits us more, what do you say

In any case, I would be more inclined to support the idea of Balin going out on Durin's Day.

And now, I am going to be late for class...
Actually, I won't. For simple reason:
*dies*