The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Fun and Games > Middle-earth Mirth
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-15-2008, 12:34 PM   #1
Ilya
Wight
 
Ilya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: In the cold
Posts: 202
Ilya has just left Hobbiton.
Shield

Quote:
I am sure you are aware that the origins of that rep not voting talk are in a post of mine on day 1 where I treated the idea of possible filibustering when I want to go to sleep pretty harshly, which Lommy found irresponsible and outrageous.
My personal opinion is that a rep should vote, but for the sake of argument I can't help wondering how deciding not to vote would be any different from throwing away one's vote. And actually throwaway votes aren't that good a way for a wolf, since they will be looked at in every case.
Coolbeans. I get that you were grouchy and by "bothered" I didn't mean in a suspicious way. Civic indifference is just a pet peeve of mine.

Quote:
Somehow I don't like the way you're playing the newbie card. It looks as if you were trying to avoid implying you're new and therefore want to stay alive. Now saying it would not be that bad a thing, but trying not to say it although meaning it because of thinking it would be suspicious is something I don't like, and it looks like it.
Ok, let's see if I can follow this. I avoided saying I was new Day 1 - check, thought if I brought it up it would be seen as too cloying. You're quite right in pointing out that saying it wouldn't be a bad thing - it's true, after all. That was a mistake on my part. "But trying not to say it although meaning it because of it would be suspicious is something I don't like, and it looks like it." Dude, help me untangle that clause. What is "it"? If you're worried that I flip-flopped on how to handle my lack of experience, well, yeah, I did. Be worried, I guess.

I'll be about in a little bit. I'm going to have a look at morm's stuff today since I didn't get to him last night.
__________________
Arvedui III has walked to Rivendell!
Ilya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 01:02 PM   #2
Boromir88
Laconic Loreman
 
Boromir88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 7,521
Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.Boromir88 is wading through the Dead Marshes.
Send a message via AIM to Boromir88 Send a message via MSN to Boromir88
Quote:
Well if you were wondering whether to trust more a person who made really good big cases against people or one who popped in to say "X looks weird... I'll tell more later," which one would you choose? If by saying a threat to the wolves you mean a player who's good at spotting wolves, it's difficult to make a difference between them, but if you mean one who can more easily convince others to think the way s/he does, I think it's justified to call Nog a greater threat than Cab.~Agan
Agan you're right.

Quote:
I don't know what you mean by a "good" case, but of course if one never says anything else than "this person is suspicous" then you are little threat. I just want to point out that we where on day 1, there was plenty of time for McCabber to come good and on day 1 extensive cases are clearly overkill and seldom better than a gut feeling.

You are not a threat to the wolves if you convince people about your case and you are wrong. . .and now we have returned to an earlier stage of this discusion: Are more experienced players better at catching wolves.
Rune you're right.

Now can you please both move on?

Quote:
"But trying not to say it although meaning it because of it would be suspicious is something I don't like, and it looks like it." Dude, help me untangle that clause. What is "it"? If you're worried that I flip-flopped on how to handle my lack of experience, well, yeah, I did. Be worried, I guess.~Ilya
Playing the newbie card is...say you're a wolf, but you're new to WWing, and you use your newbie status to your advantage by pretty much saying "Hey, I'm a newbie, I don't know what's going on."

I believe what Agan was trying to get at is saying it looks like you're trying to play the newbie card, but that would be looked at as suspicious, so you're attempting to imply it...or in other words she's doubting your use of your newbie status as meaning you're an innocent trying to get the feel for things.
__________________
Fenris Penguin
Boromir88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 01:05 PM   #3
Aganzir
Woman of Secret Shadow
 
Aganzir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: in hollow halls beneath the fells
Posts: 4,511
Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne View Post
I don't know what you mean by a "good" case, but of course if one never says anything else than "this person is suspicous" then you are little threat. I just want to point out that we where on day 1, there was plenty of time for McCabber to come good and on day 1 extensive cases are clearly overkill and seldom better than a gut feeling.
By good case I meant a case which has valid points against someone and is likely to change other players' opinions. And although there was plenty of time, I don't think Cab's a player who's into making lengthy cases.
I think a player who's capable of swaying the public opinion is a threat to the wolves even if s/he was wrong at times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilya View Post
"But trying not to say it although meaning it because of it would be suspicious is something I don't like, and it looks like it." Dude, help me untangle that clause. What is "it"? If you're worried that I flip-flopped on how to handle my lack of experience, well, yeah, I did. Be worried, I guess.
Whoa, I didn't realise I had created such a monster of a sentence. What I mean is, trying to avoid saying straight that you are new, although you make it quite clear in a more subtle way, looks suspicious to me. And it looks like you were trying to do just that. And it looks suspicious because you're trying to excuse your participating in a bandwagon (or any other suspicious thing you might do) by saying you're just a newbie.

However, there was a question you didn't answer.
Quote:
Quote:
Agan, a "charismatic wolf" would be someone who has a bead on the general suspicions of the reps and would be able to do exactly what Boro did to me yesterday: cast a vote with authority, and convince me to jump on the bandwagon.
What I haven't figured out is what you meant by calling for a method of empowering reps so a charismatic wolf wouldn't get a chance to rule them. What kind of method would you suggest?
edit: xed with Boro. Yeah I'm fine with moving on.
__________________
He bit me, and I was not gentle.
Aganzir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 02:25 PM   #4
Eönwë
Flame Imperishable
 
Eönwë's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Right here
Posts: 3,928
Eönwë is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Eönwë is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Eönwë is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.
It appears I just closed a tab with my almost finished long post on it. I seems I'll have to redo it.
__________________
Welcome to the Barrow Do-owns Forum / Such a lovely place
Eönwë is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 02:47 PM   #5
the phantom
Beloved Shadow
 
the phantom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The Stadium
Posts: 5,971
the phantom is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.the phantom is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.the phantom is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.
Send a message via MSN to the phantom
Eye

I've seen a couple of comments referring to Ilya's vote as a bandwagon vote, and I felt that I should point out that it wasn't.

Legate had three votes. Eonwe and Gwath each had one.

There were only two Reps left to vote. (Ilya and I)

Therefore the only way our votes could have resulted in an outcome is if we both agreed to vote either Eonwe or Gwath and double lynch them along with Legate.

First- there was no chance of that (I wouldn't have agreed to it). Second, it wouldn't have been a good idea in the first place.

So, the conclusion-

Both Ilya and I had no true chance to vote yesterday, for the actions of the voters who came before us rendered our votes useless.

Say what you wish about her playing the "Newbie card". You could be right. But I see no reason to think about her vote. She didn't actually vote.
__________________
the phantom has posted.
This thread is now important.
the phantom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 03:03 PM   #6
Aganzir
Woman of Secret Shadow
 
Aganzir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: in hollow halls beneath the fells
Posts: 4,511
Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Hmm you're right phantom (and now it's me who should be blamed for not checking the facts before accusing ). However, Ilya seemed to make it quite clear that Legate was her main candidate.

Anyway I want a cup of tea now.
__________________
He bit me, and I was not gentle.
Aganzir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 03:06 PM   #7
Feanor of the Peredhil
La Belle Dame sans Merci
 
Feanor of the Peredhil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: perpetual uncertainty
Posts: 5,517
Feanor of the Peredhil is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Feanor of the Peredhil is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Feanor of the Peredhil is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.
Send a message via MSN to Feanor of the Peredhil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aganzir View Post
Anyway I want a cup of tea now.
I recommend blueberry rooibos.
__________________
peace
Feanor of the Peredhil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 03:10 PM   #8
Mithalwen
Pilgrim Soul
 
Mithalwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,460
Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Twining's Traditional Afternoon would be my suggestion or maybe Lady Grey...
__________________
“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”

Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace
Mithalwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 03:24 PM   #9
Aganzir
Woman of Secret Shadow
 
Aganzir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: in hollow halls beneath the fells
Posts: 4,511
Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil View Post
I recommend blueberry rooibos.
I'm not that much into rooibos - for some reason I always drink it when I'm about to get a cold, and now my mind links it to being sick. But blueberry rooibos sounds rather interesting since I love blueberries.
If I had had Lady Grey, I would probably have taken it, but now I have to do with some strange African tea which is good but tastes a bit like corn flakes.

I am going to review Nerwen's posts now.
__________________
He bit me, and I was not gentle.
Aganzir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 03:28 PM   #10
the phantom
Beloved Shadow
 
the phantom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The Stadium
Posts: 5,971
the phantom is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.the phantom is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.the phantom is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.
Send a message via MSN to the phantom
Eye

Tea is a good idea. I've heard that it's harder to find WWs when you're thirsty.

I hope morm's having a good time watching his team. It's a tight game. They trail 14-10, but have the ball inside the ten.

As for your team Boro...

But it's okay, it's just one year. I'm sure MU will rise again.
__________________
the phantom has posted.
This thread is now important.
the phantom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 03:51 PM   #11
Nogrod
Flame of the Ainulindalë
 
Nogrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves
Posts: 9,308
Nogrod is wading through the Dead Marshes.Nogrod is wading through the Dead Marshes.Nogrod is wading through the Dead Marshes.Nogrod is wading through the Dead Marshes.Nogrod is wading through the Dead Marshes.Nogrod is wading through the Dead Marshes.
Send a message via MSN to Nogrod
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boro in #602
You mean your answer to Gwath's contradictory vote? I stubbornly re-made it because you're answer to it was hogwash.
Balogna or hogwash, I still think you're grasping at straws here and yes, I still do wonder why. Gwath contradicting was the minor issue, the thought of his motives behind that contradiction were the major issue. Fullstop.

I'm going to end this debate on my half right here with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boro
This is strangely parroting Lommy and Agan from yesterday.
Indeed.

To other matters then, reading the thread forwards....


The fact that Gil didn't vote for a representative (or actually post other than that short row with Shasta) looks like he's an innocent. I suggest he should not be lynched. Had he a role he would have been a lot more engaged says my experience with him.

Hah, figure this: Nogrod is saying we should leave a submarine alive on the first Days!

But really, he doesn't have a role and couldn't care less it seems. So let's not waste a vote on him as he will still count on the tables and if this game turns out bad in the later stages we will need him as a number on our side even if he didn't post...


Some people seem to keep on questioning the rationale behind my vote for Boro as a rep so let me state this (once again ). On Day5 with a couple of wolves still around I would only vote as a representative those I really trusted the most were having the good of the village in their mind (unless there were some really special circumstances). But on these first Days the selection of the representatives is a different thing and it can be made a powerful tool to have a closer look on some people who wouldn't otherwise be forced to take responsibility and to make decisions - or to see how someone you suspect acts with power invested on her/him.

Remember that those decisions are the ones we can actually read afterwards when we're getting some solid information (eg. the first wolf dies, someone breaks a tie in favour of a known wolf in a suspicious manner, etc...). In this game only the representatives vote so we'll have a bunch of wolves there being just too happy not to be cast into the light of the scrutiny following from being a representative - or they could be forced to make decisions they'd rather not do.

I'm not saying Boro is one of those who wishes to lurk in the shades. Hah, anything but that. But what I'm saying is that we should use the representative-roles also as a way of looking at how people behave and what kind of mark they leave during these first Days when we can afford it. Those decisions can be read afterwards when we have some real knowledge.

Yes, but he could get me lynched you say? Yes he could. But I do think we should be ready to make certain sacrifices if that would help the village win *. Although I must say that looking at Boro's posting toDay looks better - and I have myself cooled down to be sure living some RL in between last night (RL) and this. So whatever way this turns out I think I made a good choice.


Nerwen's gigantic task of going through the discussion between myself and Boro made me first think she was trying to be a bit too helpful without actually contributing anything (and morm actually commented on that as well) but then I realised that if I had time in my hands and were not a party to the debate I might have done the same thing... So I don't think we can actually make a point on that.

I find it interesting that Boro backs tp up with saying "killing McCaber was not something tp would do - and tp says that killing McCaber doesn't smell like Boro... Paraphrasing Ilya *consider some eyebrows raised*

I need to take a break now. I'll see if Greenie or Lommy wishes to post meanwhile.

* and winning that way would be beautiful indeed...
__________________
Upon the hearth the fire is red
Beneath the roof there is a bed;
But not yet weary are our feet...

Last edited by Nogrod; 11-15-2008 at 03:55 PM.
Nogrod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 03:59 PM   #12
Mithalwen
Pilgrim Soul
 
Mithalwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,460
Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Benefits of an English Moddess ...

have cupboards full of the stuff *throws green tea at Boro and Lady Grey at Agan*
Chai anyone?

But personally I am ready for something stronger....
__________________
“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”

Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace
Mithalwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 04:04 PM   #13
Feanor of the Peredhil
La Belle Dame sans Merci
 
Feanor of the Peredhil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: perpetual uncertainty
Posts: 5,517
Feanor of the Peredhil is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Feanor of the Peredhil is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.Feanor of the Peredhil is a guest of Elrond in Rivendell.
Send a message via MSN to Feanor of the Peredhil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithalwen View Post
But personally I am ready for something stronger...
With my inability to properly resolve the story I'm trying to write by deadline, I can't say I won't join you.

I fully intend to write poetry for tonight's narration. Fiction just ain't happening right now.

So give me something fun to poeticise pretty please, village.
__________________
peace
Feanor of the Peredhil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 04:08 PM   #14
Aganzir
Woman of Secret Shadow
 
Aganzir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: in hollow halls beneath the fells
Posts: 4,511
Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Aganzir is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Popping in

Quote:
Originally Posted by the phantom View Post
Tea is a good idea. I've heard that it's harder to find WWs when you're thirsty.
Yeah - I'm sure I want another cup soon. And everybody else talking about tea doesn't help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilya View Post
Agan, how to noobs usually act, then?
Despite going with Boro and such, I think you've been more independent than many new players are. I've seen many newbies pick some player whose opinions they trust almost blindly throughout the whole game, which you don't at least seem to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithalwen View Post
have cupboards full of the stuff *throws green tea at Boro and Lady Grey at Agan*
Ooh thanks Mith, you're precious!

Now back to Nerwen.
I never get my analyses done because I become bored and refresh the thread every now and again.
__________________
He bit me, and I was not gentle.
Aganzir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 04:09 PM   #15
Mithalwen
Pilgrim Soul
 
Mithalwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,460
Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.Mithalwen is lost in the dark paths of Moria.
Psst Fea...

They must realise by now that they are just here to amuse us mustn't they?
__________________
“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”

Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace
Mithalwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 03:59 PM   #16
A Little Green
Leaf-clad Lady
 
A Little Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,571
A Little Green is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.A Little Green is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.A Little Green is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.A Little Green is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.
Send a message via MSN to A Little Green
Sorry guys, I'm really just too tired to post anything now. I'm going to bed. I would have had the energy to post an hour ago, but no can do - three people playing WW on one computer has its disadvantages and so on. We'll see toMorrow, and good luck to the reps.

Good night and Night.
__________________
"But some stories, small, simple ones about setting out on adventures or people doing wonders, tales of miracles and monsters, have outlasted all the people who told them, and some of them have outlasted the lands in which they were created."
A Little Green is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2008, 06:21 PM   #17
mormegil
Maundering Mage
 
mormegil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,651
mormegil is a guest at the Prancing Pony.mormegil is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Okay, I've been doing some errands and chores today and I actually haven't watched my football game yet, I'm leaving soon to watch it (recorded). I haven't caught up on the thread but I have skimmed a bit. Ilya and Nogrod are beginning to catch my eye a bit more but Nerwen still will get my vote. She is playing very smart and I'm fairly confident we have one on our hands here. Anyway I will try to catch up later, hopefully before voting time but it is doubtful.

++Lynch Nerwen

I think the more the Boro/Nog thing goes on the more I'm inclined to believe Nog a wolf. Boro is bringing up some good points as well as others. I also would like a further look at Ilya. She is wise and very smart and it is showing in how she plays. I am beginning to not trust her and no more will I give her the newbie benefit of the doubt.
__________________
“I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.
"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”
mormegil is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:35 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.