Werewolf LIII: The Republic

[Ilya]

I am sure you are aware that the origins of that rep not voting talk are in a post of mine on day 1 where I treated the idea of possible filibustering when I want to go to sleep pretty harshly, which Lommy found irresponsible and outrageous.
My personal opinion is that a rep should vote, but for the sake of argument I can't help wondering how deciding not to vote would be any different from throwing away one's vote. And actually throwaway votes aren't that good a way for a wolf, since they will be looked at in every case.

Coolbeans. I get that you were grouchy and by "bothered" I didn't mean in a suspicious way. Civic indifference is just a pet peeve of mine.

Somehow I don't like the way you're playing the newbie card. It looks as if you were trying to avoid implying you're new and therefore want to stay alive. Now saying it would not be that bad a thing, but trying not to say it although meaning it because of thinking it would be suspicious is something I don't like, and it looks like it.

Ok, let's see if I can follow this. I avoided saying I was new Day 1 - check, thought if I brought it up it would be seen as too cloying. You're quite right in pointing out that saying it wouldn't be a bad thing - it's true, after all. That was a mistake on my part. "But trying not to say it although meaning it because of it would be suspicious is something I don't like, and it looks like it." Dude, help me untangle that clause. What is "it"? If you're worried that I flip-flopped on how to handle my lack of experience, well, yeah, I did. Be worried, I guess.

I'll be about in a little bit. I'm going to have a look at morm's stuff today since I didn't get to him last night.

[Boromir88]

Well if you were wondering whether to trust more a person who made really good big cases against people or one who popped in to say "X looks weird... I'll tell more later," which one would you choose? If by saying a threat to the wolves you mean a player who's good at spotting wolves, it's difficult to make a difference between them, but if you mean one who can more easily convince others to think the way s/he does, I think it's justified to call Nog a greater threat than Cab.~Agan

Agan you're right.

I don't know what you mean by a "good" case, but of course if one never says anything else than "this person is suspicous" then you are little threat. I just want to point out that we where on day 1, there was plenty of time for McCabber to come good and on day 1 extensive cases are clearly overkill and seldom better than a gut feeling.

You are not a threat to the wolves if you convince people about your case and you are wrong. . .and now we have returned to an earlier stage of this discusion: Are more experienced players better at catching wolves.

Rune you're right.

Now can you please both move on?

"But trying not to say it although meaning it because of it would be suspicious is something I don't like, and it looks like it." Dude, help me untangle that clause. What is "it"? If you're worried that I flip-flopped on how to handle my lack of experience, well, yeah, I did. Be worried, I guess.~Ilya

Playing the newbie card is...say you're a wolf, but you're new to WWing, and you use your newbie status to your advantage by pretty much saying "Hey, I'm a newbie, I don't know what's going on."

I believe what Agan was trying to get at is saying it looks like you're trying to play the newbie card, but that would be looked at as suspicious, so you're attempting to imply it...or in other words she's doubting your use of your newbie status as meaning you're an innocent trying to get the feel for things.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

I don't know what you mean by a "good" case, but of course if one never says anything else than "this person is suspicous" then you are little threat. I just want to point out that we where on day 1, there was plenty of time for McCabber to come good and on day 1 extensive cases are clearly overkill and seldom better than a gut feeling.

By good case I meant a case which has valid points against someone and is likely to change other players' opinions. And although there was plenty of time, I don't think Cab's a player who's into making lengthy cases.
I think a player who's capable of swaying the public opinion is a threat to the wolves even if s/he was wrong at times.

Originally Posted by Ilya

"But trying not to say it although meaning it because of it would be suspicious is something I don't like, and it looks like it." Dude, help me untangle that clause. What is "it"? If you're worried that I flip-flopped on how to handle my lack of experience, well, yeah, I did. Be worried, I guess.

Whoa, I didn't realise I had created such a monster of a sentence. What I mean is, trying to avoid saying straight that you are new, although you make it quite clear in a more subtle way, looks suspicious to me. And it looks like you were trying to do just that. And it looks suspicious because you're trying to excuse your participating in a bandwagon (or any other suspicious thing you might do) by saying you're just a newbie.

However, there was a question you didn't answer.

What I haven't figured out is what you meant by calling for a method of empowering reps so a charismatic wolf wouldn't get a chance to rule them. What kind of method would you suggest?

edit: xed with Boro. Yeah I'm fine with moving on.

[Eönwë]

It appears I just closed a tab with my almost finished long post on it. I seems I'll have to redo it.

[the phantom]

I've seen a couple of comments referring to Ilya's vote as a bandwagon vote, and I felt that I should point out that it wasn't.

Legate had three votes. Eonwe and Gwath each had one.

There were only two Reps left to vote. (Ilya and I)

Therefore the only way our votes could have resulted in an outcome is if we both agreed to vote either Eonwe or Gwath and double lynch them along with Legate.

First- there was no chance of that (I wouldn't have agreed to it). Second, it wouldn't have been a good idea in the first place.

So, the conclusion-

Both Ilya and I had no true chance to vote yesterday, for the actions of the voters who came before us rendered our votes useless.

Say what you wish about her playing the "Newbie card". You could be right. But I see no reason to think about her vote. She didn't actually vote.

[Aganzir]

Hmm you're right phantom (and now it's me who should be blamed for not checking the facts before accusing ). However, Ilya seemed to make it quite clear that Legate was her main candidate.

Anyway I want a cup of tea now.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Anyway I want a cup of tea now.

I recommend blueberry rooibos.

[Mithalwen]

Twining's Traditional Afternoon would be my suggestion or maybe Lady Grey...

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

I recommend blueberry rooibos.

I'm not that much into rooibos - for some reason I always drink it when I'm about to get a cold, and now my mind links it to being sick. But blueberry rooibos sounds rather interesting since I love blueberries.
If I had had Lady Grey, I would probably have taken it, but now I have to do with some strange African tea which is good but tastes a bit like corn flakes.

I am going to review Nerwen's posts now.

[the phantom]

Tea is a good idea. I've heard that it's harder to find WWs when you're thirsty.

I hope morm's having a good time watching his team. It's a tight game. They trail 14-10, but have the ball inside the ten.

As for your team Boro...

But it's okay, it's just one year. I'm sure MU will rise again.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Boro in #602

You mean your answer to Gwath's contradictory vote? I stubbornly re-made it because you're answer to it was hogwash.

Balogna or hogwash, I still think you're grasping at straws here and yes, I still do wonder why. Gwath contradicting was the minor issue, the thought of his motives behind that contradiction were the major issue. Fullstop.

I'm going to end this debate on my half right here with that.

Originally Posted by Boro

This is strangely parroting Lommy and Agan from yesterday.

Indeed.

To other matters then, reading the thread forwards....


The fact that Gil didn't vote for a representative (or actually post other than that short row with Shasta) looks like he's an innocent. I suggest he should not be lynched. Had he a role he would have been a lot more engaged says my experience with him.

Hah, figure this: Nogrod is saying we should leave a submarine alive on the first Days!

But really, he doesn't have a role and couldn't care less it seems. So let's not waste a vote on him as he will still count on the tables and if this game turns out bad in the later stages we will need him as a number on our side even if he didn't post...


Some people seem to keep on questioning the rationale behind my vote for Boro as a rep so let me state this (once again ). On Day5 with a couple of wolves still around I would only vote as a representative those I really trusted the most were having the good of the village in their mind (unless there were some really special circumstances). But on these first Days the selection of the representatives is a different thing and it can be made a powerful tool to have a closer look on some people who wouldn't otherwise be forced to take responsibility and to make decisions - or to see how someone you suspect acts with power invested on her/him.

Remember that those decisions are the ones we can actually read afterwards when we're getting some solid information (eg. the first wolf dies, someone breaks a tie in favour of a known wolf in a suspicious manner, etc...). In this game only the representatives vote so we'll have a bunch of wolves there being just too happy not to be cast into the light of the scrutiny following from being a representative - or they could be forced to make decisions they'd rather not do.

I'm not saying Boro is one of those who wishes to lurk in the shades. Hah, anything but that. But what I'm saying is that we should use the representative-roles also as a way of looking at how people behave and what kind of mark they leave during these first Days when we can afford it. Those decisions can be read afterwards when we have some real knowledge.

Yes, but he could get me lynched you say? Yes he could. But I do think we should be ready to make certain sacrifices if that would help the village win *. Although I must say that looking at Boro's posting toDay looks better - and I have myself cooled down to be sure living some RL in between last night (RL) and this. So whatever way this turns out I think I made a good choice.


Nerwen's gigantic task of going through the discussion between myself and Boro made me first think she was trying to be a bit too helpful without actually contributing anything (and morm actually commented on that as well) but then I realised that if I had time in my hands and were not a party to the debate I might have done the same thing... So I don't think we can actually make a point on that.

I find it interesting that Boro backs tp up with saying "killing McCaber was not something tp would do - and tp says that killing McCaber doesn't smell like Boro... Paraphrasing Ilya *consider some eyebrows raised*

I need to take a break now. I'll see if Greenie or Lommy wishes to post meanwhile.

* and winning that way would be beautiful indeed...

[Mithalwen]

have cupboards full of the stuff *throws green tea at Boro and Lady Grey at Agan*
Chai anyone?

But personally I am ready for something stronger....

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

But personally I am ready for something stronger...

With my inability to properly resolve the story I'm trying to write by deadline, I can't say I won't join you.

I fully intend to write poetry for tonight's narration. Fiction just ain't happening right now.

So give me something fun to poeticise pretty please, village.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Tea is a good idea. I've heard that it's harder to find WWs when you're thirsty.

Yeah - I'm sure I want another cup soon. And everybody else talking about tea doesn't help.

Originally Posted by Ilya

Agan, how to noobs usually act, then?

Despite going with Boro and such, I think you've been more independent than many new players are. I've seen many newbies pick some player whose opinions they trust almost blindly throughout the whole game, which you don't at least seem to do.

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

have cupboards full of the stuff *throws green tea at Boro and Lady Grey at Agan*

Ooh thanks Mith, you're precious!

Now back to Nerwen.
I never get my analyses done because I become bored and refresh the thread every now and again.

[Mithalwen]

They must realise by now that they are just here to amuse us mustn't they?

[A Little Green]

Sorry guys, I'm really just too tired to post anything now. I'm going to bed. I would have had the energy to post an hour ago, but no can do - three people playing WW on one computer has its disadvantages and so on. We'll see toMorrow, and good luck to the reps.

Good night and Night.

[mormegil]

Okay, I've been doing some errands and chores today and I actually haven't watched my football game yet, I'm leaving soon to watch it (recorded). I haven't caught up on the thread but I have skimmed a bit. Ilya and Nogrod are beginning to catch my eye a bit more but Nerwen still will get my vote. She is playing very smart and I'm fairly confident we have one on our hands here. Anyway I will try to catch up later, hopefully before voting time but it is doubtful.

++Lynch Nerwen

I think the more the Boro/Nog thing goes on the more I'm inclined to believe Nog a wolf. Boro is bringing up some good points as well as others. I also would like a further look at Ilya. She is wise and very smart and it is showing in how she plays. I am beginning to not trust her and no more will I give her the newbie benefit of the doubt.