Tol-in-Gaurhoth LII: Star Crossed II: Together for Eternity

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Fea

Well obviously Brinniel's the real seer and I'm just faking it.

Precisely.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Well, darling, if you're a seer, you obviously haven't dreamed of me.

Saying "You're lying!" is not the same as saying "I dreamed of you last night and your role is, in fact, ____."

So your opinion? Really doesn't matter to me.

[Nogrod]

Does anyone remember the times there used to be these false seers around?

Maybe Di is taking a path down the memory-lane? I mean wasn't it that the false seer was not told s/he was "false"?

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Even if I myself don't actually believe in the two rangers theory (and I might be wrong with that) I would have considered the possibility that Eomer is indeed a ranger as well and thence - and looking at the way he has reacted to the revealments - I'd say he looks more innocent than Fea.

No, Eomer is no more innocent than Fea. Because if he were telling the truth, there would be three rangers.

Alright since I've been making hints for some time now and its basically out in the open, I suppose I should clarify. This is what I know:

Innocent:
Nogrod
Shasta
Gwath
Brinn

Don't Know:
Sally
Gollum
Groin

Baddie of Some Sort:
Fea
Eomer

That narrows things down quite a bit.

To be more specific...

On Night 1, I dreamt of Mac. I chose him because I remembered how sneaky he's been in past games, so I wanted to know whether I could trust him.

On Night 2, I dreamt of Nogrod. It was a last minute decision and I almost chose Fea, but decided it'd be safer to dream of someone I was more on the fence about in case I was wrong about my suspicions of her. Nogrod is innocent. And I'm glad to know I can trust him since we do tend to agree on a lot. Though now that we're in this mess, I rather wish I had chosen Fea instead.

On Night 3, I dreamt of Shasta. He was one of my suspects at the time and I was tired of wondering about him, so I chose him. Shasta is innocent.

Last Night, I dreamt of Gwath. My main reason for choosing him was because he kept falling under my radar. And I discovered that he's the ranger. At the time, I was a bit disappointed I still hadn't caught a lover, but now I'm glad to know Gwath's identity because I know not to believe Eomer.

There's really no need for me to reveal who I've protected. All you need to know is that I've done quite the inadequate job compared to Gwath who has spared us two kills. Good work, mate.

I've also known all along that there were only two pairs of lovers, but lovers aren't the only evil ones around. This is what Di informed me:

Your goal is to protect ordinary mortals from the spirits of the dead who have possessed some from among you, and are out for blood. Two sets of star crossed Lovers from beyond the grave have returned. There are also mischievous immortals afoot. This information has come to you in a dream, and marks you as special among the mortals, so be careful how much knowledge you reveal.

"Mischievous immortals" is what she said. That means there's more than one...perhaps some cobbler-like characters. But I'm not sure what the immortal part means...does it mean they cannot be killed? I don't know.

Anyways, that's why I suspect Eomer and Fea may not be lovers, but are simply distracting us. But I can't say that for sure. The whole 'immortal' thing is why I'm a bit hesitant to vote either of the two, but I'm willing to risk it if it's the only way for all of us to know for sure.

Now it's time for me to turn my attention back to the election. Things seem to be slow now, but I'll check back in little while.

So until I return,
Your Friendly Neighbourhood Watcher

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Fea

Saying "You're lying!" is not the same as saying "I dreamed of you last night and your role is, in fact, ____."

I don't know your role and I've said so. And perhaps you are a seer...just not one that's on the village's side. The reason I said you're lying is because the claim to Eomer's role...I just can't imagine Di placing three rangers in this game.

[Nogrod]

Okay.

Using PM's to prove a point is not good politics... also what I said about the concept of false seers still applies.

Nevertheless I must say - what I think I said already before - that your revelation feels more believable than Fea's although you hadn't revealed before this moment.

Looking at the explanation of your dreams... I'm not so sure how I'll take them even if I'm inclined to believe you.

But what is this talk about three rangers while you say yourself being the seer and being at the same time failing to protect anyone unlike Gwath? I mean this kind of makes me wonder...

Puzzled as ever...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I just can't imagine Di placing three rangers in this game.

We're really going to need to compare notes later because the stuff I've been told versus the stuff people are telling me? Doesn't mesh.

I was told there are two sets of lovers, and that I had an equally gifted counterpart to my seer-ness. You were told that there are two sets of lovers, a set of mischievous immortals, and you dreamed of a ranger, with yourself as the seer.

I was told of at least two less roles than you were, which means little more than that our Moddess is having a field day right now rolling on the floor watching us struggle.

Brinn, so you're a ranger as well? How's that work?

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But what is this talk about three rangers while you say yourself being the seer and being at the same time failing to protect anyone unlike Gwath? I mean this kind of makes me wonder...

Gwath is a ranger and I'm the watcher, which means I'm both a seer and a ranger. If Eomer was a ranger too, there'd be three of us...but I don't believe that's so.

The two successful protections (of you and Aganzir) came from Gwath. I was protecting other people those Nights...and was not so successful obviously.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Fea

Brinn, so you're a ranger as well? How's that work?

I get both one dream and one protection each Night. It's basically a two gifteds in one package deal. On one hand it's pretty awesome...on the other, it's a lot of pressure.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I get both one dream and one protection each Night. It's basically a two gifteds in one package deal. On one hand it's pretty awesome...on the other, it's a lot of pressure.

Try being a seer with a second seer saying you're a liar.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

I was told there are two sets of lovers, and that I had an equally gifted counterpart to my seer-ness. You were told that there are two sets of lovers, a set of mischievous immortals, and you dreamed of a ranger, with yourself as the seer.

From the face of it it looks like Fea is the false saeer and Brinn is the right one, but I might be wrong as well. If I remember it correctly, the false seers have had a kind of percentage by which their dreams turn out true or false.

But how about that "people will be killed if they lynch / kill you"?

And really, what those mischievous immortals are? Maybe Fea will take people with her after all - it might be good for the game balance?

I still suspect Shasta. Check my early posting for details...

Although the victory conditions seem to be a bit muddy. I mean do a false seer count as an inocent? Or a mischievous immortal?

Darn darkness...

[Nogrod]

If we have four baddies that do count as the winning side together (lovers + two immortal baddies whatever they are) we should pick one of these on the line and keep our thumbs up we're right about it...

If only the one (?) pair lovers make the victory we might try a different route and solve the problem tomorrow - whicheverone of us is around and about.

In the latter case it would mean either:
Shasta
Sally
Gollum
Eomer

And two of them should be lovers?

What do you think? I need to go to sleep soon as even if I have been following the US elections I still have to wake up and get to the school for 11AM and it's 5AM right now...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Suspect me or don't suspect me, Nog, but it's clear there are better people to be concentrating on right now. I for one don't believe for a minute that Gwath, Brinn, Fea, and Eomer can ALL be gifted.

I wonder if Fea is Venus herself. I'm more inclined to believe Brinn (and by association, Gwath) right now.

Here's what I think. I think that Fea is Venus, a lone baddie, and she chose the lover pairs, not Diamond. I also think Eomer is a lover, so in my opinion he's probably the better target.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

And may I point out, Nog, that if you believe Brinn, you sort of have to believe I'm innocent.

[Brinniel]

Hmm...a false seer is possible. I've never been in a game with one before, but the sheer thought of it makes things confusing.

I don't know how much to believe Fea. But based on her reaction to my reveal, I'm doubting more and more that she's actually a lover. Eomer I'm more suspicious of, but I'm not sure of him either.

On another note, I'm worried we're not giving enough attention to other players; namely Sally, Gollum, and even Groin.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I still suspect Shasta. Check my early posting for details...

If my dreams are accurate, then Shasta is innocent. I'll tell you that one reason I went after McCaber was because of Shasta's suspicion of him, and after dreaming him I remember how unappreciated yet accurate he can be. Until something proves otherwise, I'm trusting my dreams.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

If my dreams are accurate, then Shasta is innocent. I'll tell you that one reason I went after McCaber was because of Shasta's suspicion of him, and after dreaming him I remember how unappreciated yet accurate he can be. Until something proves otherwise, I'm trusting my dreams.

What do you mean, if your dreams are accurate? That seems very strange to me. You mind explaining what you mean by that statement, dear?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

What do you mean, if your dreams are accurate? That seems very strange to me. You mind explaining what you mean by that statement, dear?

Seems pretty clear to me; a couple people so far have thrown out the idea of a false seer, given that so many people are claiming to be gifted.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Seems pretty clear to me; a couple people so far have thrown out the idea of a false seer, given that so many people are claiming to be gifted.

Oh, duh. That makes sense. I took it to mean that Brinn wasn't sure if her dreams were right. *headTARDISes* Sorry. Posting while I'm in a meeting; I totally should have caught that.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

And may I point out, Nog, that if you believe Brinn, you sort of have to believe I'm innocent.

A fair point I had forgotten... and I'm not sure if it makes me believe in Brinn more... looking at your first post toDay Shasta...

Darn it.

If Fea is a false seer then she might have it wrong with Sally and that I would not wonder.

Eomer is a problem I must say. There are reasons to believe he tries to take advantage of the situation - and what Gwath says is plausible, that he was careful to evade from his possible protections... And I felt bad with him from very early on as you can check. But then again I'm a bit reluctant to lynch him. Even if I might try it in the end... which is going to be pretty soon.

I need to think.

[Brinniel]

Groin: Because he's been on the BD but not posting here, I assume he considers himself out of the game. And as I've stated many times before, I believe for that reason he's probably an ordo.

Gollum: Seems confused. At first thought, I'd guess it points to innocence, but at this late stage of the game with a limited number of innocents left, I'm not sure.

Sally: Like I said, she's played safely and her reactions look faked. Whether she's a lover or something else, I don't think she's innocent.

Eomer: Definitely not innocent. A lover or something else. But I'm not sure which. Right now, he's the one I'd consider most voting for.

Fea: For now it looks more likely she's some unknown role, though I won't rule out the possibility of her being a lover. But I have no interest in voting her toDay. If the game is still going toMorrow, I might consider otherwise.

Five unknown roles. Two are lovers. When Di told me of 'mischievous immortals' I assumed that there are two, but I'm not positive about that. But if it is true, only one of the above is an ordinary innocent.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

You're really making a lot out of what is simply a late response, Nog.

++Eomer

I think we have the best chance of getting rid of a lover pair by executing him.

[Nogrod]

Eomer -> Brinn
Gwath -> Eomer
Fea -> Brinn2
Shasta -> Eomer2

Anyone for Sally or Eomer?

To me it would depend on how serious we think our situation is. If we have no problem (only two counted baddies for victory around) we should try Sally I say.

If we are in a more dire strait it should be Eomer then?

I'm not sure I like the choices but others I feel are even more shots in the dark...

EDIT: X'd with Brinn & Shasta + the vote tally corrected...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But how about that "people will be killed if they lynch / kill you"?

You've got a limited time to convince people, bad guys included, not to kill innocent people, including yourself. How do you do it?

Originally Posted by Brinn

Hmm...a false seer is possible.

I've never come across that role before. Is the false seer told that s/he's false? If I'm false, basically I'm asking, would I know it?

If I am false, does that mean I'm evil or does that mean I'm good but unreliable?

Originally Posted by Shasta

I think we have the best chance of getting rid of a lover pair by executing him.

That's true only if my dreams are inaccurate, which now I'm worried they are.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Thought-

and please forgive me for darting in and out, I'm watching th'election with great enthusiasm...

Is it possible that Brinniel is the false seer?

On the plus side, we both know that Nog's innocent, so that's good. At least one person can be agreed upon.

[Nogrod]

I think the false seer is one who is not told s/he's one but is given dreams of which a certain percentage is wrong... I wrote about this already and won't speculate more as I need to get to sleep soon. Read the thread, please people (means Sally as well)...

Let me add the last thing I'm afraid of from early on this Day when all this discussion hadn't taken place.

Originally Posted by Sally

Fea, must you tell the world? Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the attention and all, but....well, the ranger just needs to be my friend, I suppose.

Originally Posted by Fea

Of course the ranger is your friend. We're on the same side, after all.

I just get the creeps from this. Maybe it's just me?

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

To me it would depend on how serious we think our situation is. If we have no problem (only two counted baddies for victory around) we should try Sally I say.

I'd be willing to vote Sally. The problem is Sally won't vote for herself. Groin won't show up. And we can't guarantee Gollum will either. So at this point, I don't think it's possible to lynch her toDay.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Fea

Is it possible that Brinniel is the false seer?

I think it's less likely mainly because of how Eomer and Gwath revealed their claimed rangership. Also the fact that I was told of other mischieveous immortals and you weren't...

[Nogrod]

For my own sanity I'll try to sum up things...

Fea reveals really early and says she is the seer, giving a theory about her being the "untouchable one" (killing of whom would lead to a disaster to anyone trying it) with incomplete knowledge of things (compared to Brinn).

She says Eomer is the ranger and that Sally is innocent.

Sally doesn't comment her innocence but Eomer plays along with her revelation even if he looks a little uncertain about why Fea did what he did.


Brinn reveals she's a guardian (the term Fea also used even if she didn't claim to be both a ranger and a seer!) when things get strange.

She says Gwath is the ranger and Shasta is innocent.

Shasta uses her revelation as his defence and Gwath plays along.


Gollum and Groin are not mentioned.



So it's 3 against 3??? (against three innocents?)

It's getting even more confusing as I can't bring myself to believe Groin and Gollum are lovers...

Voting soon... any ideas?

PS. Congrats for the US!

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Nog, Gwath claimed to be the Ranger himself, Brinniel simply backed him up.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Brinn reveals she's a guardian (the term Fea also used even if she didn't claim to be both a ranger and a seer!) when things get strange.

She says Gwath is the ranger and Shasta is innocent.

Shasta uses her revelation as his defence and Gwath plays along.

I think I actually revealed before Brinniel.

[Nogrod]

I see the situation and will not wish to see you go Brinn at this point. You can laugh at me afterwards if you fooled me but I'm too tired to think more clearly or with more detail right now the time being 6AM and the elections about over...

Four votes given and Sally won't vote for herself, Groin is probably not going to appear and Gollum will not probably be reading all to make an educated vote...

So it leaves a choice between Eomer and Brinn...

++ Eomer

A fresher mind would have been a nice treat...


EDIT: X'd with Shasta and Gwath...

[Brinniel]

Well, I'm obviously not voting for myself:

++Eomer

Hopefully a lover but even if not, his death will certainly clear some of our confusion. Because I think we can all agree he's not an ordo.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Because I think we can all agree he's not an ordo.

I could have sworn I already said this...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Well, I'm obviously not voting for myself:

++Eomer

Hopefully a lover but even if not, his death will certainly clear some of our confusion. Because I think we can all agree he's not an ordo.

I had already gone to bed but after I had laid back there for a while and just thought about this I had to come back and restart my computer...

This is possibly the most suspicious vote-post I've seen in ages.

You're "obviously" not going to vote for yourself? Obviously.

So why to say that? aren't you overdoing it here?

And Eomer's not an ordo? Right... how should you know?

I can hear the laughs afterwards... or then I'm dead wrong.

But I had to say this.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

And Eomer's not an ordo? Right... how should you know?

Because why would an ordo claim he's the ranger? That'd just be absurd.

[satansaloser2005]

The Downs TOTALLY just ate my post! That I spent like an hour working on!



Moral of the story, no matter what happens we'll find out a bunch of stuff, but each possible lynch has some ginormous risks. The one that I'm most willing to make though, is

++Eomer

If he's lying, we've caught a baddie. If he's being honest and he's the Ranger, we've still got our seer (whichever one of the lovely ladies it is, although I think I know who's being honest) and I wouldn't put it past Di to make a seer/ranger combo, so I think we'll be fine.

Alternatively, does anyone outside the US need a flat/house/roommate? *shudders*

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Because why would an ordo claim he's the ranger? That'd just be absurd.

If it was for the good of the village (e.g. to keep the real ranger from having to reveal) I'd do it. But I'm a whack job, what can I say?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Aw, poor Sally.

I'm pretty happy with the election results, actually.

[Gwathagor]

But we don't want to talk about THAT, do we?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

But we don't want to talk about THAT, do we?

She brought it up, don't look at me!