Tol-in-Gaurhoth LII: Star Crossed II: Together for Eternity

[Nogrod]

YesterDay's votes (given reasons given for those still alive):


Mac for Eomer


Groin for Rikae - "I know, I suck at this game. I've been focusing on getting my GPA up lately and have lost interest and time for this. I expect that this will be my last game so I'm just going to vote right."


Rikae for Gollum

(Btw., one reason to believe that Rikae and/or Mac was a wolf yesterDay was surely the fact that they voted very early but were still able to stick around for hours and hours - and neither of them said they were especially confident with their votes when they casted them; I'm pretty confident that was one of the main reasons a pair of lovers went for Mac last Night.)


Eomer for Little Green - "I will vote for the other person incriminated by my somewhat arbitrary Nogrod-theory ... I can't go with feelings because I'm sure Greenie is capable of displaying an air of nonchalance over any hidden evil."

(Btw. Eomer defended Gollum a bit earlier

Originally Posted by Eomer

Oh dear. I see a dangerous bandwagon forming. Not that there are no points against Gollum but don't let today's voting be wasted. Pick your own vote; don't let others do it for you.

even if I'm not too sure there actually was a real bandwagon forming... there sure was only one vote at that point.)


Aganzir for Gollum - well, she had been after him for a long time and I'm not going to retype or search for all her points...


Shasta for McCaber - quite out of the blue (his only post yesterDay just voting?). The day before he said - among reasons to vote others - "I could vote McCaber without a qualm just to get a total unknown out of the way".


Gollum for Rikae - "taking these words from one [me that is] who appears innocent" so completely washing his own hands of the vote?


Nogrod for Rikae - I'm not going to recite all that, really...


Fea for Rikae - "I have to, love. I'm sure you understand. Before today I found you suspicious, but I might have concentrated elsewhere. Today, though? With the code-talk with Mac and the twitchy reactions to everything? I can't not."


McCaber for Mac - "Ordinarily it would be Rikae all the way, but I promised not to do so this round". I found no other explanation for it... Interesting as it was a totla throw-away vote after all?


Sally for Rikae - "I'll (hopefully) explain in a bit". She made the same promise twice in the early hours of toDay as well...


Brinn for Rikae - after a long sustained suspcion on yesterDay she said: "I apologise Rikae if you are actually telling the truth, but as of now I just don't believe you are".


Gwath for Shasta - "I realize it won't make any difference at this point. I also hope this doesn't seem like too much of a throwaway vote. I really honestly mean to look more closely at Shasta tomorrow".


Greenie said already early she will not and she didn't vote.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

On a second note I'm getting some bad vibes from Brinn and Eomer. They are both smooth and sensible - and Brinniel even seems to think about exactly the same I do... I mean looking at her latest suspicious - not suspicious list could be made by me.

It's funny. I feel exactly the same way about Brinniel. Of course, I don't recommend that you choose me on the same basis.

I'm very wary, though, of Nogrod and Aganzir: the tendency is to think of them as innocent because of the Ranger saves but I would hate to let them free at this stage if they are evil.

I'm going to look again at yesterday's voting and then vote myself, for I must go to bed.

[satansaloser2005]

Okie dokie. I am A: awake, B: not trapped in a dark room, and C: not covered in fake blood/strawberry syrup (curse our low budget heh) so as promised....


Basically my vote yesterday was on instinct, at least in a way. Rikae's amazingly deceptive, as I'm sure you can all agree, so I tend not to trust her unless I'm somehow convinced to do otherwise. Fool me twice, etc.

Also, the way she was talking to Mac seemed too sneaky and suspicious. Granted when Legate did it during the first Day or so he was joking, but I would assume that an innocent Rikae would just come out with her theory and share it for the benefit of the group but the way she was speaking to Mac was too covert and undercover, and it just cried wolf to me.

The way she acted yesterDay in general (and the entire performance with Noggie) just struck me as horribly over the top. (Not that I don't like the way you play, love, it just made you look quite guilty).

Other than that, it was a "I need to vote in the next ten minutes or I won't get a chance to" type of thing and she was the best candidate I could come up with in such a short amount of time and reading.


I'm doing some leftover cleanup from the Haunted House among other things so I'm rather busy-ish, but I promised you all an explanation for my vote yesterDay and I'm not going to put it off any longer.

EDIT: x'd since....meh, I'm just pretty sure it's x'd somewhere.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

But Nogrod, in quick succesion Fea, Gwath and Aganzir were interrogating Gollum, and then Rikae voted. In the moments I posted it looked as though it was going to be a wave of Gollum votes. How odd that it ended up being for Rikae; I really think she could have avoided that. Nevertheless, Gollum has always looked suspicious (though he did it last game as an ordo too) and it wasn't so much Gollum-votes that I warn against, rather votes without an explanation.

You know the sort: "Oh obviously Gollum has to die" comments, that help no-one.

Unless he really is a baddie.

Gah. Can't decide.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Of course, I don't recommend that you choose me on the same basis.

Truisms rule OK.?

Originally Posted by Eomer

I'm very wary, though, of Nogrod and Aganzir: the tendency is to think of them as innocent because of the Ranger saves but I would hate to let them free at this stage if they are evil.

If there is indeed that kind of tendency it is indeed ill-informed - and I'm not sure either one of us has indeed claimed innocence because of the ranger-saves. The lovers are after each other as I've said a gazillion of times and I'm not assuming Agan is innocent.

EDIT: X'd with Sally & Eomer

[Aganzir]

Guess who's the worst person ever at going to sleep early.

Hey Cab, there were still two questions you didn't answer.

-voted Mac. Why?
day 4
-doesn't like all the people with low post counts - a few of them look like they're trying to hide something. Who?

Originally Posted by Gollum

These quotes are from the Animated Lion:

Love that nickname. Let's get married!

Originally Posted by Gollum

In all seriousness, I was merely saying what I thought of Brinn.

But if I don't see an aura of innocence about her posts, how would you elaborate on it?

Originally Posted by Gollum

I kept the names to myself because the last time I said who I was wary of you made a big thing about it. And to be honest, I don't recall who I had in mind.

Because your reasons back then seemed so false. But in the future that shouldn't be a reason to withhold your thoughts.

Originally Posted by Gollum

By want of evidence I meant there was nothing to suspect them about in the actual content of whatever they said.

Ahh sorry, I completely misinterpreted it. Although I know the word want means also lack, somehow I thought you meant "because they want me to explain why I suspect them".

Originally Posted by Gollum

And whose avvy and sig are you referring to?

Eomer's.
(Not really. My own. FYI, I don't use the word gay as an insult, being more or less one myself.)

Originally Posted by Gollum

How did you get the idea I've stopped suspecting you? I don't remember saying I quit doing that.

That was a conclusion reached in the misinterpreted part and therefore meaningless.

Originally Posted by Gollum

There's no reason to be sarcastic.

That's the same as if you said to Rikae that there's no reason to accuse people. It's my nature.

Originally Posted by Gollum

Hey! we're all allowed to play differently. Also, what was wrong with doing that?

You should never ever trust anyone in WW, except maybe seer-revealed innocents in a game with no twists, unlike this. In my opinion Nogrod's reasons you based your vote on where exceptionally bad and therefore it looks like you were just trying to justify a vote for Rikae.

You still didn't explain what exactly makes me look too excited, and I'd still like to hear it, though.

All in all, Gollum's response to me made me feel much better about him. If guilty, I would have expected him to be much more nervous by now - or then I have just underestimated him thus far.
Anyway, I'm not so sure anymore I'm going to vote him.

edit: xed since the beginning of this page

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

++GWATHAGOR

Just thinking about people playing it cool, Gwath is certainly one of those. This doesn't go along with any of my previous suspicions but I've been pretty clueless so far. I thought I'd do something different.

No offence meant, Gwath. I think you're a good player. That's kinda why I picked you.

He reminds me slightly of the phantom, y'know? That might make sense to some of you.

I'm out of here. Goodnight.

[Nogrod]

Agan and Brinn are both argumentative and active. We're going to need them in this village. I'm not voting them even if I'd have my suspicions on them at least on the feeling-level.

I'm feeling all the more sorry about yesterDay as I really thought I was going to be dead after that and thence went on after Rikae. Had I not known I was saved the Night before I would have wished to see Rikae around for the very same reasons.

Then again I'm not too sure about Agan's latest. I mean it makes no sense they are lovers and she makes that enormous case against Gollum only to back away from it that way when Gollum makes something like a decent defence. But what I have a trouble with is her interpretation of that defence. I've seen enough newbies playing it low key and acting more unaware of things than they actually are - and then jump on defence when suspected heavily if they are baddies. Otherwise many of them just lay low and lose their interest in the worst case.

I mean there is a kind of character that has no interest in playing when her/his role is that of an innocent but they wil do all if they have a role, especially that of a baddie.

Even if I'm not sure that is the case with Gollum I'm surprised by Agan's reaction to his post.

Eomer: you keep on reading my mind and that worries me indeed! It's just so nice, too nice from my point of view. But as I know you are also one of those who could make a difference in the end-game I'm not going to vote you either.

Darn, my computer time is running out...

I'll post shortly as I get home even if I need to go to sleep pretty soonish.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Two things from me so far.

1. Our kill methods have started to vary. Earlier, the nightKills were done via stabbing, but tonight, Mac was smothered.

2. Every day so far, Aganzir has used the word "marry" (or some form thereof) in her posts, and I wouldn't put it past Di to make that a role requirement.

Just some food for thought, for now.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Then again I'm not too sure about Agan's latest. I mean it makes no sense they are lovers and she makes that enormous case against Gollum only to back away from it that way when Gollum makes something like a decent defence.

Nogrod, I wouldn't say I'm backing away. Gollum is still my top suspect but now I'm not anymore 100% sure he's a baddie, as I used to be.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

2. Every day so far, Aganzir has used the word "marry" (or some form thereof) in her posts, and I wouldn't put it past Di to make that a role requirement.

Will you marry me Shasta?
Seriously, that's my nature.

I am off to sleep now. Really.

[McCaber]

-voted Mac. Why?
day 4
-doesn't like all the people with low post counts - a few of them look like they're trying to hide something. Who?

I voted for Mac because at the time he seemed pretty suspicious. It was sort of a throwaway vote, but Rikae was obviously dead and I wanted to make my suspicions clear.

The people trying to hide - Gollum, from what I can tell. Gwath would be my second choice; he hasn't really been open about his opinions and for all the posts he's made they haven't been very helpful. And if I had to pick a third, it would probably be Shasta. I get the feeling that people have let him slide by and he hasn't been doing anything to change that.

Groin would be devoting more time to this if he were a villian, I would suppose. But that may just be the air he wants to cultivate.

Today my vote will probably be either Gollum or Gwath.\

EDIT: crossed with Shasta and Aganzir.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Nogrod, I wouldn't say I'm backing away. Gollum is still my top suspect but now I'm not anymore 100% sure he's a baddie, as I used to be.


Will you marry me Shasta?
Seriously, that's my nature.

I am off to sleep now. Really.

You haven't proposed to me yet. I'm trying to decide whether to be grateful or insulted.

Not that I should talk, but is it just me or are Shasta's posts pretty fluffy? I need to take another look at him; I'm sure he's posted worthwhile information, it's just that I keep forgetting he's even in the game and that concerns me. Off to read and do other necessities.


EDIT: x'd with Cabbie. We all live in a yellow submarine....sorry. That just kind of got stuck in my head. (No, seriously, it did.)
EDIT #2: Crap. I've not been bolding my posts all game, I believe. So sorry. This one's fixed, if that helps.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I've only been gone one day! Sheesh.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I've only been gone one day! Sheesh.

Sweetie, I just meant that the posts I saw weren't very long, not that you'd been gone. Chillax, my dear. I'm hardly joining the "lynch Shasta" campaign. Not yet, anyway. *scampers off again, and kicks herself because she just did the same thing she accused you of....bah*

[McCaber]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

We all live in a yellow submarine....sorry. That just kind of got stuck in my head. (No, seriously, it did.)

Whatever you're trying to say about me, I refuse to listen. Unless it's also about everyone else, then I will use it against them ruthlessly.

(Expressing myself would be a lot easier if I let myself use smilies. Oh well.)

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by McCaber

Whatever you're trying to say about me, I refuse to listen. Unless it's also about everyone else, then I will use it against them ruthlessly.

(Expressing myself would be a lot easier if I let myself use smilies. Oh well.)

*hugs you*


I simply pick the wrong times to randomly burst into song, apparently. And yes, self-expression with smilies is infinitely better than without.


Randomly....pretend I'm Noggie for all of however long it takes to read this.
"Yes, I agree, I'm not cleared. Just because the Ranger saved me doesn't mean I'm a known innocent, and I don't expect anyone to think that." Etc, etc. It's almost as if the gentleman protests too much, only in reverse.

I'm not saying that it makes him guilty, but it's almost as if he's sitting there thinking "if I tell them that they shouldn't trust me enough, maybe they'll take me for an innocent because I'm so humble". Not humble, but the English major fails at words today. It just rather worries me.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by McCaber

Today my vote will probably be either Gollum or Gwath.

Those two happen to be the only ones who have garnered votes this far toDay...

Sorry McCaber but your stance looks too convenient to be that of an innocent. Really.

As I'm not going to risk sleeping too late another time so that I can't post before I need to go to school I will vote now.

++ McCaber

You can pick other reasons for this from my earlier posts toDay. It's getting 1AM and my alarmclock will ring at six...

PS. Don't forget the Gollum-Brinn / Gollum-Eomer possibilities either!

[McCaber]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Those two happen to be the only ones who have garnered votes this far toDay...

Perhaps there's a reason they've garnered votes today. With many of the talkative players gone people are going back and taking a look for things they may have missed. In this case, I missed Gollum and Gwath, as apparently several others did too.

[Nogrod]

An interesting conspiracy-theory to add...

This far all those dead or those that have been tried to be killed have been more or less vocal or independent-minded / substantive. All the adjectives don't fit to everyone but most do.

Di also said there will be no modfire.

So did she deliberately pick the ones she thought would be the sneakiest in playing it low for her lovers in this game and kind of grinned when stating there will be no modfire? That would indeed be a scenario in which I might be persuaded to believe there are only two pairs of lovers in this game...


Oh, and adding to my suspicion-list of those a bit more vocal ones: like someone already said Fea seems to discuss mostly the questions that concern the structure and mechanics of the game being careful not to suspect actual players too much... That is sneaky indeed.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by McCaber

Perhaps there's a reason they've garnered votes today. With many of the talkative players gone people are going back and taking a look for things they may have missed.

That's sensible indeed. But I still must say your choice looks like the easiest one... there would be a host of reasons to vote every single one of us, believe me.

It's only that just a few of those cases are correct and the others are due to us being only imperfect humans who make mistakes and because every sincere statement can be suspected not only of bluffing but also of double-bluffing...

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

An interesting conspiracy-theory to add...

This far all those dead or those that have been tried to be killed have been more or less vocal or independent-minded / substantive. All the adjectives don't fit to everyone but most do.

Di also said there will be no modfire.

So did she deliberately pick the ones she thought would be the sneakiest in playing it low for her lovers in this game and kind of grinned when stating there will be no modfire? That would indeed be a scenario in which I might be persuaded to believe there are only two pairs of lovers in this game...


Oh, and adding to my suspicion-list of those a bit more vocal ones: like someone already said Fea seems to discuss mostly the questions that concern the structure and mechanics of the game being careful not to suspect actual players too much... That is sneaky indeed.

Would Di really be that evil? I mean, I know she's a traitorous wench but that may be too sadistic even for her.

Re: Fea
At the risk of sounding like a Gollum, erm, parrot, I thought the same thing. I haven't paid a lot of attention to her the last Day or two (which is of course my own fault) but I found it very odd that for a while a lot of her posts were about the game structure and not the actual game itself. That's actually something I was going to mention about her later, but I figured I may as well mention it now since you sort of reminded me of it.

(Oh, and Nog? Go to bed, love. Sally commands it to be so, that you may rest well and have a good day tomorrow.)

EDIT: x'd with the last post from a certain Noggin.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

What I've gathered today:

Nog is either evil, or being obviously set up.

Agan has a (rather large, actually) case against Gollum.

What did I miss?

And I still think the kill method change is relevant, somehow.

[Gollum the Great]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

What I've gathered today:


Agan has a (rather large, actually) case against Gollum.

*Claps and cheers* You just scored 100%!!!


Aganzir, I have given you all my reasons for believing you (in the past) to be excited. Why are you continuing to question me on that topic?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I wish Rikae was still here. I'm reasonably certain she had it figured out.

I have to assume that's why Mac was killed- he was getting close.



Please don't make me spell it out for you. It's complicated and I don't want to try to explain.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

I wish Rikae was still here. I'm reasonably certain she had it figured out.

I have to assume that's why Mac was killed- he was getting close.



Please don't make me spell it out for you. It's complicated and I don't want to try to explain.

Try us.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I'm a seer who's only allowed to dream of innocents. If I dream of a Lover, I die. If a Lover pair kills me, they and I all die. If the village kills me, everybody who voted for me is retributionally slaughtered.

You wanted why I've seemed like I'm not on anybody's side?

It's because I've been playing with the hope that I don't die because if I die, so do several others. And I'd very much love to figure out more roles before I go. Which is, since you were all wondering, the reason I'm so fixated on roles: I can't dream of baddies, but I can try to corner them during the day.

On the plus side, I can tell you that Nog's an ordo.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

I'm a seer who's only allowed to dream of innocents. If I dream of a Lover, I die. If a Lover pair kills me, they and I all die. If the village kills me, everybody who voted for me is retributionally slaughtered.

You wanted why I've seemed like I'm not on anybody's side?

It's because I've been playing with the hope that I don't die because if I die, so do several others. And I'd very much love to figure out more roles before I go. Which is, since you were all wondering, the reason I'm so fixated on roles: I can't dream of baddies, but I can try to corner them during the day.

On the plus side, I can tell you that Nog's an ordo.

Wow. Erm....forget I asked? (not that you exploded or anything, I just wasn't expecting that)

[tangent] Hold up. You can't dream of baddies? How is that even possible? Say if you PM Di and say "I want to know what Noggie is" (I use him since you say you know what he is) and she says she can't answer that's your answer then, isn't it? How would Di keep you from dreaming baddies without letting you know you were dreaming baddies? [/tangent]


I feel stupid now. I'm going to go sulk in a corner. Back later.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

How would Di keep you from dreaming baddies without letting you know you were dreaming baddies?

It's not that it's against the rules for me to do it.

It's that if I accidentally dream of a bad guy, I die.

So if I'd dreamed of any baddies? I would be dead already.

Believe me, it's scary sending out a PM to the moddess hoping that your choice of dream isn't going to get you killed.

[McCaber]

Fea, that's easily one of the most devilish roles I've ever heard of. (On the moderator's behalf, that is. I don't mean to say that you're a devil.) I'd doubt you, but I don't think you can make something like that up. Congratulations on lasting this long.

Is Nogrod the only one you dreamt of who's still alive?

EDIT: crossed with Fea

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

It's not that it's against the rules for me to do it.

It's that if I accidentally dream of a bad guy, I die.

So if I'd dreamed of any baddies? I would be dead already.

Believe me, it's scary sending out a PM to the moddess hoping that your choice of dream isn't going to get you killed.

Oh! I completely misunderstood your last post. That makes a lot more sense. And makes life a lot more difficult for you indeed. *gives poor Fea a hug*


Okay. I just read your post again and caught the whole thing. GOOD LORD! Di is a twisted wench. (As a sadist I love it, but as a player....wow....seriously not cool)

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by McCaber

Is Nogrod the only one you dreamt of who's still alive?

Yes.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Fea

I'm a seer who's only allowed to dream of innocents. If I dream of a Lover, I die. If a Lover pair kills me, they and I all die. If the village kills me, everybody who voted for me is retributionally slaughtered.

Oh, very clever. That's a convenient way to make both the village and the lovers be afraid to kill you. Di may be twisted, but she's not that twisted. Because if nobody believed and everyone voted you, the game would be over just like that. And I can't imagine any mod wanting their game to end that fast.

Nobody believe Fea, she's lying through her teeth and trying to screw with our heads. I don't think she's a lover, though. Pulling something like this is too risky for a lover. No...she's something else....

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Oh, very clever. That's a convenient way to make both the village and the lovers be afraid to kill you. Di may be twisted, but she's not that twisted. Because if nobody believed and everyone voted you, the game would be over just like that. And I can't imagine any mod wanting their game to end that fast.

Nobody believe Fea, she's lying through her teeth and trying to screw with our heads. I don't think she's a lover, though. Pulling something like this is too risky for a lover. No...she's something else....

I don't think she'd be lying about being the Seer though. The "lovers kill me and they die thing" is probably a bluff to keep herself alive, but it would be too easy for the real seer to come out and nab her, which would mean instant loss (at least for her and her partner) so it would be a bad plan to try something that outrageous.

[Brinniel]

She's not the seer. She's lying.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

That's a convenient way to make both the village and the lovers be afraid to kill you.

Yeah, that sort of being the point...

When you don't want to die, you find ways to stay alive.

The truth is a great way to go.

So how 'bout telling us what you are?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

She's not the seer. She's lying.

Hunny, if I'm lying about anything, that ain't it.

You really don't want to do this.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Fea

You really don't want to do this

Do what?

I don't want to lynch you because then your whole purpose would be fulfilled.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Do what?

I don't want to lynch you because then your whole purpose would be fulfilled.

What on earth do you think my purpose is? To die?

[Gwathagor]

WOW this is getting complicated.

Brinn, if Fea is not a lover and not a seer, what else is left? What do you think she is?

I'm not sure what to think about Fea yet. I'm always initially skeptical of role reveals because you basically have to take the player's word for it. There was a post or two the other day that made me wonder about her though; I'll go back and find it.

The manner in which Aganzir has conducted her case against Gollum makes me think her innocent. I imagine that a baddie would have continued to pursue the case even after Gollum's response, as there seemed to be a substantial degree of suspicion developing against Gollum. If what she wanted was to lynch an innocent, she was doing a pretty good job and would have had no reason to stop.

I have to agree with Nogrod that McCaber's asserted suspicions seem too convenient given the current voting situation. McCaber, together with Sally and Shasta, has played very safe and non-confrontational so far. This does not make him guilty, but it's a good hiding place for a baddie. Plus it seems like there's always one quiet bad guy. I'd bet money that at least one of those three is a lover.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Fea

What on earth do you think my purpose is? To die?

To distract us from lynching the lovers.

I think Fea is some sort of cobbler.