Tol-in-Gaurhoth LI: The Pain of Wargs

[Nogrod]

Between Shasta and Samwise it's hard to say. Shasta might be innocent because he has not bothered to take part () but Samwise tried at least a bit and thence might be a wolf... but it would be bad to kill him just for that... well there's more actually but still.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Between Shasta and Samwise it's hard to say. Shasta might be innocent because he has not bothered to take part () but Samwise tried at least a bit and thence might be a wolf... but it would be bad to kill him just for that... well there's more actually but still.

I apologize for not being here. We're going into the run of our show (you theatre people know what I mean!) and it's been tech week, and thus hectic and crazy. I'm lucky if I get four hours of sleep a night... and it will probably be this way for the next week. I'll still be around, but don't expect too much.

That said...

WHAT? You lynched our ranger Day 1? Oy gevault. *dies*

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, seems at least people are showing up. A short comment for now - Brinniel is making me uneasy even with her comments as short as they were till now; where I would like to see her participate more, she is making me suspect her merely by her un-conflict-y phrasing, which makes me think of her like that she's simply trying to say nothing that might catch the attention of the crowd. We'll see whether there's more grounds to suspect her later on; I am not sure if I'd vote for her right now, but perhaps if there's just a few posts more to consider and they'd be in a similar tone... Is this the old "Brinniel rule"? ("Brinniel is to be lynched early in the game, and she will be revealed innocent; however if she survives past Day 3, she's a Wolf.") As for Lommy and her possibly weird playing style, I can't say now that it's something which would make me suspect her, but at the same time I must of course reflect on that. Actually, I think that I have to yet form my opinion on that completely from scratch, as I honestly don't recall whether she'd act like that any time before. I think not, but then again, she did not act like that when she was an Ordo, but also not even when she was a Wolf, etc. So if there's something weird in her style, not sure how to classify it.

Oh, and

Originally Posted by Gwath

How likely is it that Eomer would have made one of our new players a werewolf? I'm not well enough acquainted with him to know whether or not I should consider it a likelihood/possibility.

That's pretty meta-game thinking, and I am not sure if it'd be adviseable to use it here as any evidence. He may also have picked his choices completely randomly. I really wouldn't bring this up here.

I'll be hopefully around in, say, four hours (if the school library is empty enough), and after that only shortly before the DL, as it seems. Till later...

[Thinlómien]

I don't really understand this "oh Lommy plays so differently" stuff. Quite a many people seem to think so, and as I do not think there are any grounds to think so, it strikes me as a little furry. This looks like the classic case of an innocent stating a weird opinion and the wolves following it because they don't realise it's a weird opinion because they are evil and thus their brain is not for real in the wolf-seeking mode or then they just one to get someone lynched, or something. That is to say that I wouldn't be surprised at all to find a wolf among those who talk about my changed playing style. In my opinion, I'm not playing any differently than before (unless you're all still talking about that accusation-throwing post, which was an intentional try at that kind of discussion-stirring) and just for your information, I'm not trying a new style to confuse you or to amuse myself. If there really is a difference in my playing style, it's totally unintentional. You may draw your conclusions from that.

Originally Posted by Gwath

In particular, I doubt that Nogrod is a traitor (I can't really say "wolf"), primarily because I see the willingness to take on the attention and suspicion that comes with being the deciding vote as a sign that he honestly found Sam as likely a candidate as anyone else.

Yes, I think the fact that he voted someone who had already been voted for looks rather innocent in this company... it was a more constructive thing to do than throwing in a new name would have been.

Originally Posted by Gwath

The other possibility is that Brinniel is a traitor and Nogrod was forced to kill someone else in order to save her from the lynch. Otherwise, what would be the purpose of exposing onesself so early on, when it would be equally easy to hide in an obscure vote?

I think that sounds a little far-fetched, all in all. I wouldn't call Nogrod's actions "exposing oneself" nor would I give them such importance. I think he might have very well voted Samwise as a wolf even if Brinn wasn't his fellow.


edit: xed with Rooney

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

I have a problem with this part of Brinn's post, why is she appoligsing and not sticking to her guns instead? I mean it is one thing if you by accident do not vote and then the next day appoligise for it, but not voting was choise she made and if she thought it was the right thing to do yesterday then surely that has not changed?

Also I would like to make it clear that by not voting you are actually more responsible for getting an innocent lynched than if you made a seemingly random vote, because even though one feel like it is random it is always based on something. . . it might be tone in the post or some other small thing, but at least you tried to get a traitor and there is more chance of you saving an innocent by voting than by not voting.

All this being said; it is not that I am heavily suspecting Brinn, it is more that I think she acted wrongly.

Hmm... actually, only one comment to this one post of Rune's, that's again what I said in the beginning, when I said he seems too reasonable... now he seems rather too... "just", or how to say that. I mean, he looks like the "wise judge" in this game, don't you think? I don't know what to make out of it, though, but it may be a pose - good for a Wolf, of course.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I don't really understand this "oh Lommy plays so differently" stuff. Quite a many people seem to think so, and as I do not think there are any grounds to think so, it strikes me as a little furry. This looks like the classic case of an innocent stating a weird opinion and the wolves following it because they don't realise it's a weird opinion because they are evil and thus their brain is not for real in the wolf-seeking mode or then they just one to get someone lynched, or something. That is to say that I wouldn't be surprised at all to find a wolf among those who talk about my changed playing style. In my opinion, I'm not playing any differently than before (unless you're all still talking about that accusation-throwing post, which was an intentional try at that kind of discussion-stirring) and just for your information, I'm not trying a new style to confuse you or to amuse myself. If there really is a difference in my playing style, it's totally unintentional. You may draw your conclusions from that.

Okay, well, now that sounded like the "classic" Lommy But honestly, I don't think it was that strong as for example Mith or Gwath now seemed to imply, but you were a little different than before. And that was not the first post only, but sometimes the others, too - a "funny" tone, in a way.

But, speaking of that - could it be that for example Gwath did jump on this train "Lommy seems to be referred to as weird, let's join the club, if there's a decision later to lynch her, I will merely stay within the crowd unnoticed"? His last post made me think about that a bit.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Yes, I think the fact that he voted someone who had already been voted for looks rather innocent in this company... it was a more constructive thing to do than throwing in a new name would have been.

Well, personally I don't think this is a reason for him to look innocent; now especially now we are talking about Nogrod - and he may as well have voted somebody who was already voted for rather than to cast a random vote, don't you think? This is not to say that I think it makes him guilty, but I am negating the idea of that this would be something which I would consider a plus for the thought of him being innocent.

Hmm, so what. Now this was only two new posts since my last one. I'm gonna stick around hopefully for yet about half an hour, but then will be back only at the DL - of course the main host of posts will come then... well, but what can I do. Anyway, I will have perhaps time to think, although only in my head, about whom I should vote for today. *looks around for a printer so that he can read the thread in the tram - or during the courses* (no, of course, that would be silly! )

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Hmm... actually, only one comment to this one post of Rune's, that's again what I said in the beginning, when I said he seems too reasonable... now he seems rather too... "just", or how to say that. I mean, he looks like the "wise judge" in this game, don't you think? I don't know what to make out of it, though, but it may be a pose - good for a Wolf, of course.

That is because I am wise, my dear Legate.

Anyways you will be happy to know that you are probably the one I am most confused about, surely that must be some sort of ego-booster.

Originally Posted by The Lommy One

That is to say that I wouldn't be surprised at all to find a wolf among those who talk about my changed playing style

Is this because you find it supicous that people think your style has changed or because you think it would be easy for a wolf to join the choir?

To be honest; in the begining I was thinking "Is this how Lommy normaly acts"

Moving on. . . Something that scares me is how little I suspect Nogrod, normally I always find him slightly wicked-ish, but not this time. Maybe it is because I have gotten used to his style or maybe it is because he is actually evil this time around.

Anyways I am very sorry, but I will have to vote early today as we have a staff meeting at work today and I am not sure it will finnish in time for the deadline. . . also we might want to grap a beer after the meeting.

So you can expect my vote within 2 hours.

EDIT: Cross Posted With Gaunt

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I don't really understand this "oh Lommy plays so differently" stuff. Quite a many people seem to think so, and as I do not think there are any grounds to think so, it strikes me as a little furry.

Well I still think it was odd, I stand by that. And if noticing stuff that genuinely seems odd makes me look treacherous I'll take my chances. You seem to be protesting too much .. I might have forgotten about it if you hadn't dragged it up again.

Time for work...

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I don't really understand this "oh Lommy plays so differently" stuff. Quite a many people seem to think so, and as I do not think there are any grounds to think so, it strikes me as a little furry. This looks like the classic case of an innocent stating a weird opinion and the wolves following it because they don't realise it's a weird opinion because they are evil and thus their brain is not for real in the wolf-seeking mode or then they just one to get someone lynched, or something. That is to say that I wouldn't be surprised at all to find a wolf among those who talk about my changed playing style. In my opinion, I'm not playing any differently than before (unless you're all still talking about that accusation-throwing post, which was an intentional try at that kind of discussion-stirring) and just for your information, I'm not trying a new style to confuse you or to amuse myself. If there really is a difference in my playing style, it's totally unintentional. You may draw your conclusions from that.

This could also be a sneaky werewolf tactic for reversing suspicion from yourself on to your accusers.


Groin, you said: "Shhh, Gollum, you're making us look suspicious! "

I'd say you've been around long enough to attempt reverse psychology. Is that what's going on here?

EDIT: Crossed with Nogrod

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Groin, you said: "Shhh, Gollum, you're making us look suspicious! "

I'd say you've been around long enough to attempt reverse psychology. Is that what's going on here?

Psychology? Oh you are too kind, but I'm afraid it was just a bit of silly sarcasm!


OK, Legate is looking pretty innocent to me right now. He's being way too helpful for being a Were Warg, pointing that whole deal with Lommy. Same opinion I'm having with Kath, she's doing to well of a job with keeping helpful posts of what has happened so far.

Nobody seems to be hopping on the lynch Nogrod wagon, so I guess that means it was just me who suspected him. He's off my list of suspicious characters for right now.

Gaunt and Gollum are entirely innocent. Gaunt is trying to get a grasp of the situation and Gollum is more of a bandwagon type of player, as we saw in the beginning of Day 2 with Nogrod.

I don't know about Mith or Lommy yet. I'll have to do some quick looking back!

[Gollum the Great]

Crud, gotta go! No explanation for my vote!

++Nogrod

[Groin Redbeard]

I can't find anything suspicious with Mith but Lommy on the other hand doesn't seem to be too helpful. As we see in posts 123 & 153 she is almost always defending herself or making short comments on the ideas of others but doesn't really go out on a limb by suspecting anyone. For the most part she seems content with criticizing others, but it doesn't even feel like she's doing it to really shape opinions. This either typical Thinlomien playing or a Were Warg playing it safe.

EDIT: X'ed with Gollum

[Mithalwen]

Groin it its the "helpfulness" I find suspicious.... so much posting ... gettin hard to see wood forom trees ....

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

It annoyed me that I had no solid cases against anyone so I started reading some of the older posts, you know, to see if I could find anything.

I was actually focusing on Legate's posts, but then I had a look at a post of Lommy's and it made me wonder.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I don't really understand this "oh Lommy plays so differently" stuff. Quite a many people seem to think so, and as I do not think there are any grounds to think so, it strikes me as a little furry. This looks like the classic case of an innocent stating a weird opinion and the wolves following it because they don't realise it's a weird opinion because they are evil and thus their brain is not for real in the wolf-seeking mode or then they just one to get someone lynched, or something. That is to say that I wouldn't be surprised at all to find a wolf among those who talk about my changed playing style. In my opinion, I'm not playing any differently than before (unless you're all still talking about that accusation-throwing post, which was an intentional try at that kind of discussion-stirring) and just for your information, I'm not trying a new style to confuse you or to amuse myself. If there really is a difference in my playing style, it's totally unintentional. You may draw your conclusions from that.

Yes, I think the fact that he voted someone who had already been voted for looks rather innocent in this company... it was a more constructive thing to do than throwing in a new name would have been.

It was very defensive, but of course that does not have to mean anything as we all get defensive if we feel threatened enough. It is just the fact that she so insisting that she behaves as she always does that makes me think: It may be that she is a wolf trying very hard to play as she always does and therefor is very defensive about it and then she uses a classic counter attack stating that it is very furry to say anything sugesting she has been acting odd.

Of course she could simply be an ordo convinced that she is playing as she always does. . . anyways it just made me think.

EDIT: Cross Posted With Legate

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Hello. . . Is there anybody out there?

Anyways I will have to soon as work is calling, I am not feelig too well so hopefully they will send me home, but I cannot count on that.

[Brinniel]

I'm here. I found out I can make it for the deadline after all (hurray), but I need to run an errand first. I don't think it'll take long so I'll be back in hopefully less than an hour.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

It was very defensive, but of course that does not have to mean anything as we all get defensive if we feel threatened enough. It is just the fact that she so insisting that she behaves as she always does that makes me think: It may be that she is a wolf trying very hard to play as she always does and therefor is very defensive about it and then she uses a classic counter attack stating that it is very furry to say anything sugesting she has been acting odd.

Of course she could simply be an ordo convinced that she is playing as she always does. . . anyways it just made me think.

Hmm... well, it of course may be either way, but then I think actually this assumption does not sound that unlikely. If Lommy were a wolf, I think this slight defensive-behaviour "I have not done anything out of the ordinary" could fit her.

Maybe I could take a look at some older things too, hoping that somebody will show up meanwhile...

EDIT: x-ed with Rune

[Thinlómien]

Two things caught my attention now that I came here and read what's happened while I've been away. One, it's been awfully quiet today.

Two, we have been focused on just a few villagers today. I, Brinn, Rune, Legate, Gollum and Mith have been talked about. Not much about Di or Shasta or Gaunt or Gwath or Kath. Mostly it's just that those who have been around have been talked about and the ones who've been absent have slipped under the radar. This worries me. All the louder players accuse each other while the quiet ones waltz through the game happily. Now, I'm not saying anything as silly as that there are no wolves among the loudmouths or that the quiet ones are evil, but I think we're really doing a mistake by focusing only on half of the village and letting the other half hang around in the comfortability zone. It's very probable that there are baddies hiding there - I think it's very unlikely that all the evil-doers are found from the bunch that has been on the spotlight toDay.

I'm especially concerned about Gwath and Kath, because they strike me as suspicious-ish (I'd like to look through their posts to see what is it actually that makes them fishy to me), but I'm worried that if Di or Shasta is a wolf (or both of them ), they will slip through totally unnoticed. I'm not that worried about the spotlight not being on Gaunt because I think he looks rather innocent at the moment.

And just to add, I think Brinn has been posting more innocently toDay than before. She sounds more genuine. But I'm still unsure and suspect her a little.

Unless I've cross-posted with something very interesting, I'm now going to have a quick (it's quite near the deadline... eek) look at Gwath and Kath.


edit: xed with Legate, Brinn and Rune

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

We could vote Gwath. . .

I would like Kath to stay onboard still. . .

Okay here it goes will vote for Lommy, but I am really torn between her Legate, Brin and Gwath.

++Thinlómien

[Thinlómien]

Gwath
- is hiding in the shadows, more silent than usual (I know his RL hurries/timetables, but still...)
- Day1 vote rather odd - jumps on a random vote on a person who hasn't seemingly given too much reason to suspect herself
- gives adistant and a little fishy feel
+ his arguments against me sound innocent
+ is not jumpy at all unlike the Gwath-wolves I've known
+ his Groin-vote seems innocentish, as does his vote for Rune

Kath
- Day1 vote very safe and easy
- apologises her vote (ok sorry, had to say that because she wrongly used it against me once )
- too helpful (I know she always is, but this time she's almost overdoing it, analysing pretty much everything - as if she couldn't otherwise think of anything to say, also not-that-useful stuff, like what got Samwise lynched)
- tone slightly insincere
- like Nogrod says, her Kitanna-analysis is a little weird (an innocent would probably have looked at things a bit more carefully because she needs to find out stuff, not just fake that she's doing so)
+ Samwise-analysis sounds genuine and innocentishly smart
+ not jumpy
+ seems like her normal self (although, I'm not sure if that speaks for her innocence at all... she's quite good at bluffing)

Ok, I didn't become much wiser. I still suspect them both a little, but Kath more than Gwath. I'd very much like to hear more of both of them. I'm hopeful that Kath will appear before the DL...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Great! Seems at least some posting is gearing up - now I only hope more people appear to post, and now, and not fifteen minutes before the DL...

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Two, we have been focused on just a few villagers today. I, Brinn, Rune, Legate, Gollum and Mith have been talked about. Not much about Di or Shasta or Gaunt or Gwath or Kath. Mostly it's just that those who have been around have been talked about and the ones who've been absent have slipped under the radar.

That's quite connected topic, too, and I would second this now. Actually, I have just skimmed through the earlier Days once again (it's called "cursoric reading"), if there are any particular things which would now bring my attention, especially concerning those who have slipped under my radar this far (i.e. Mith, Gwath, Kath, Di, Gaunt...). From those, I got a complex-ish picture of Gaunt as innocent-looking. Besides that, it's either grey zone (Gwathagor, and also Kath, whom I besides that dislike just because of her style of posting, which I a) can never decipher whether being wolfy or innocent, b) am just annoyed with because the posts appear just once a Day, but they are so long ) or too little to chew (Di), or too chaotic (Mithalwen).

(Actually to be honest, the main feeling that it gave me now is just horrible annoyance with the progress of this game: Nogrod was right, half of the players just stops by to post once a Day and that's it... I mean come on, what kind of a game is this supposed to be...)

EDIT: x-ed since Rune

[Gollum the Great]

Phew! I'm finally back!

I must admit that I'm surprised at how much Legate has been chasing after me (so to speak). All this "I can't get anything out of his votes so I'll keep up this Gollum topic" holds me amazed. Well I'm not going to suspect you for today (hahaha) but I think your overdoing it.

Innocentish:

Rune: he has (if I remember right) reasonable posts and find nothing particularly odd or suspicious about him.

Gwathagor: not much to base a suspicion on.

Mithalwen: see Gwath

Shasta: nothing to go by

Diamond: see above. Though I don't agree with her that the traitors are quiet.

Kath: for the reasons above.


Not so Innocent:

Legate: somewhat confusing posts. Not that he has been speaking in evil vein of me (if I use the expression correctly), but simply hounding on after anyone for half a long web page just looks like your trying to get others to follow you.

Brinniel: hard to explain. There's what seems an aura of queerness about her, so I have no grounds for a true suspicion.

Gaunt: hardly contibuted to the flow of discussion, and appeared to want both Nogrod and Groin out. Still, with so little evidence from him, I once again have nothing to really suspect.

Thinlomien: strange posts, it seemed to me, but if they were just to start the game going, then...

Have to vote now.

++Lommy

[Gaunt]

Hello All,

Apologies for my lack of participation thus far - I have been very busy.

Anyway, I feel pity for Samwise Gamgee - it was almost as if just by making himself noticed he aroused suspicion (for two people at least!) rather than by actually saying anything that was genuinely suspicious. Being new to this lark I don't really have much of a suspicion about anyone at this stage, but I will read over the posts in more detail and try to come up with something.

[Mithalwen]

Well Gaunt it seems we have a set up unknown to any of us here so you may not be at a disadvantage!!!

That prophecy is creeping me out but having the kind of brain that finds word puzzles too fascinating I fear it may become a distraction. It is certainly unusual for someone to get lynched on 2 votes.

And Groin seems to have taken up my mantle of wanting Nogrod dead just to help clear the mind!!!

I have about another half hour now and plan to return till the end after work but I seem to be incubating a head cold so if I can't "head it off at the pass" I may have to curtail again... hope not but if my head is still cottonwooly I won't be much help.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Legate

Is this the old "Brinniel rule"? ("Brinniel is to be lynched early in the game, and she will be revealed innocent; however if she survives past Day 3, she's a Wolf.")

Hey, I've made it past Day 3 and have been innocent before. Of course I usually wind up being a misguided ordo who suspects all the wrong people...so maybe you should just lynch me.

Originally Posted by Rune

Also I would like to make it clear that by not voting you are actually more responsible for getting an innocent lynched than if you made a seemingly random vote, because even though one feel like it is random it is always based on something. . . it might be tone in the post or some other small thing, but at least you tried to get a traitor and there is more chance of you saving an innocent by voting than by not voting.

But the problem is I really had nobody. No one single post caught my eye as suspicious. My random vote would've literally been random...I would've closed my eyes and pointed at a name. That's not a fair way to vote which is why I didn't do it, and I truly didn't have time to consider my options. Surely if I had voted, I would probably be criticised for my choice and how I went about it....so it's a lose-lose situation for me.

Something's wrong with me...I can't seem form opinions of anyone still. My brain must be exhausted. I might be around later, but I can't be sure so I think I'll vote soon. But who to vote for? Hmmm. I might just have to use the process of elimination to come to a decision..

[Nogrod]

How sweet and familiar this feels again! I mean I was getting worried yesterDay when basically no one wished to see me to the gallows! That was weird.

But now as everything is back to normal... I'll start playing.

Two or four werewolves, together or against each other - or two pairs of lovers, or whatever, we need to start catching them.

I'll start with looking at that "wannabe-bandwagon". It looks too delicious for a careless baddie not to take part in...

[Gaunt]

Ok, I think I am starting to get the hang of this now.

As far as I can see suspicion is divided into two categories:

1. Suspicion based on heavy participation and aggressive or at least confident accuastions and public theorising (this type of suspicion seems to me what led to the lynching of Samwise and suspicions now being directed at Nogrod)

2. Suspicion based on light or non participation

Regarding the first theory, Nogrod is, it seems, the prime suspect at present. Now, judging by the other posts, he is behaving in the way he normally does when playing werewolf. However, i'm not convinced by Legate's theory below:

Although there's one thing, I don't belive Nog-wolf would pick Kitanna for a first kill. That'd really testify strongly against him in my eyes. He would pick some quiet one to "punish" him.

If he is a werewolf, wouldn't it make sense for him to kill someone who had been involved? That way he gets rid of a player who is more likely to successfully analyse his behaviour, and creates the impression of one of the quieter players lurking in the shadows, picking off the more talkative wargs. And by decrying their non-involvement and threatening to vote for them, he further polarises the group and hopes to direct suspicion on to those quieter wargs.

Even as I write this i'm not sure, but it does seem very convenient that his past reputation in the game clears him from suspicion in the eyes of some.

More thought is required.

As for the second theory, it doesn't give us much to go on - how are we too choose between the players who have not been heavily involved? The only way I can think is by anlysing the posts they have made explaining why they have not, or will not, be posting very much. But I for one would not be confident enough to make a prediction based on this

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Gaunt

If he is a werewolf, wouldn't it make sense for him to kill someone who had been involved? That way he gets rid of a player who is more likely to successfully analyse his behaviour, and creates the impression of one of the quieter players lurking in the shadows, picking off the more talkative wargs.

Sure, that would make sense but it would also be the most unsporty way of playing this game. I mean there are result-oriented players who only care for the win and then those who like a good game whatever the end-result. I'm definitively of the latter type. What's the fun in a quiet village where there is nothing to play?

Which brings me to this next one:

As for the second theory, it doesn't give us much to go on - how are we too choose between the players who have not been heavily involved? The only way I can think is by anlysing the posts they have made explaining why they have not, or will not, be posting very much. But I for one would not be confident enough to make a prediction based on this

Exactly! That is why I like to press those non-players as much as I can (call it threatening if you wish - to me it's a way of trying to make them post and talk eg. to play in the first place) and if there is no better candidate I'm more than willing to lynch them so that there would be an actual game in the end - if I ever make it there myself or not.

The problem with this inbalance is that it's always easier to find this or that from someone who actually posts a lot than from one who just says "Hi, let's bag the wolves". As you Gaunt said, the latter "cause" doesn't make one confident with one's vote.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

But the problem is I really had nobody. No one single post caught my eye as suspicious. My random vote would've literally been random...I would've closed my eyes and pointed at a name. That's not a fair way to vote which is why I didn't do it, and I truly didn't have time to consider my options. Surely if I had voted, I would probably be criticised for my choice and how I went about it....so it's a lose-lose situation for me.

A vote will always be more fair than no vote, maybe not to the one voted on, but to the rest of us wargs.
Anyways I shall drop this subject now and move on.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Which brings me to this next one:Exactly! That is why I like to press those non-players as much as I can (call it threatening if you wish - to me it's a way of trying to make them post and talk eg. to play in the first place) and if there is no better candidate I'm more than willing to lynch them so that there would be an actual game in the end - if I ever make it there myself or not.

[Nogrod]

Okay, Groin would you mind answering a question or two?

You've had quite a crusade on me toDay but I really can't find any reasons why that is. Looking at your determination with it one would think you had something.

First: if you "have always a bad feeling about me in WW" then how do you justify that to yourself as a reason to suspect me in any given particular game?

Now let me give you a suggestion and do answer if you feel you need to. An innocent needs to be careful not to help in lynching an innocent and will thence be a bit careful with his suspicions - not that we shouldn't suspect everyone, on the contrary that's what we need to do - but an innocent should not monomaniacally go after one person if there is no good reason for it. Were you a wolf or a no-brainer (which I know you are not) I could understand the way you play...

Secondly: you say "He is always the perfect wolf because he behaves like a wolf all the time". I'm still waiting for any clarification on that matter both generally and even more so in this game in particular... It's easy to say "X doesn't sit right with me" or "I'm feling bad about Y" or "Z behaves like a wolf" if that's all you say. It requires some actual playing to then elaborate why. But looking at the situation where this was said suggests the intent of the comment was not so much to give further arguments to lynch me (that would clarify or add to the reasons for it) but to just keep up the spirit / discussion of lynching me. An innocent doesn't behave that way if he doesn't have a strong case - or at least I can't see the rationale behind that from an innocent.

So are you a wolf then?


Gollum: I said yesterDay that I won't be suggesting lynching you in your first game just because you decided to make your only suspicion on those that had been the only talkers - without any other reason. But it looks like you are continuing the game in the same mode, not giving forwards even a tiny little bit of reason for your suspicions. Please speak. No "threats" this time. I think I need not do that any more...


Reading through that wannabe-bandwagon gave me bad news as well. Looking at the way Lommy, Legate and Rune go to and fro there between being nice and considerate and backtracking a bit to keep the issue alive fits perfectly with the way a wolf would act...

Okay that's for that thing. When I come back I hope there are other issues to tackle as this may be more or less wasting time.


And to add...

Gwath's explanation is taken in and his status in my suspicion-list has fallen back to where it was yesterDay. Also Mith seems innocentish alongside Brinn (I don't see where you guys see her suspicious - nice, yes, but the RL explanations are too convincing as she wouldn't be that unsporty). Also Gaunt looks very good right now.

Of Di, Kath and Shasta I have nothing to say... for the obvious reason. Let's hope they can change that before the Day draws to a close.

[Gaunt]

Nogrod: "Sure, that would make sense but it would also be the most unsporty way of playing this game. I mean there are result-oriented players who only care for the win and then those who like a good game whatever the end-result. I'm definitively of the latter type. What's the fun in a quiet village where there is nothing to play"

Fair point Nogrod, but I believe, and think someone like you would also believe, that a game only really works if people play competitively to the best of their abilities. Now if you, who I gather to be an experienced werewolf player, knew that you could do something to improve your chances of winning, I think you would do it, and in that light I see your claim to just be in it for a good game to be insincere, and a futher attempt to throw people off. I think you would really think that people trying to win MAKES for a good game.

Or I could be completely over-analysing this.

[Gwathagor]

Good morning, everyone. I am here and I am reading.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Gaunt

Now if you, who I gather to be an experienced werewolf player, knew that you could do something to improve your chances of winning, I think you would do it
...
I think you would really think that people trying to win MAKES for a good game.

First sentence: I agree in part; the second one: agreed fully. A game where there is winning and losing isn't a good game if someone tries to lose in purpose. But playing by trying to only maximise one's chances of winning or staying alive is not my piece of cake. *maybe that's the reason I never became an investment banker*

When I'm a wolf I want to have challenges and keep the dangerous players around - then I either lose with dignity and pride or win with the greatest spoils there are. When innocent I try to keep the discussion going, suspecting everyone as much as I can to really open the discussions and to help other people who will actually play and not just hun'ker down to stay alive - it oftentimes leads to an untimely death because I'm not rubbing all the people the nice way, but it has been worth it if it's been fun or if it later helps the village to find out the culprits.

Or I could be completely over-analysing this.

The level of analysing is fine. It's very good indeed! But you only over-estimate my thrive to win with any means.

[Brinniel]

Process of elimination....

Legate of Amon Lanc
Thinlómien
Kath
Nogrod
Gwathagor
Shastanis Althreduin
Brinniel
Mithalwen
Diamond
Groin Redbeard
Gollum The Great
Rune Son of Bjarne
Gaunt

I'd rather not see another player I've never played with go so soon. I don't know their styles, so I want to give Gollum and Gaunt a chance.

Di's hardly been here, so I won't vote her.

As tempted as I am to vote Rune, it probably for the simple reason that it is Rune. But I always suspect him and he ends up innocent...I don't think I've ever played with him when he was a wolf. I have no reason to vote him.

Mith seems the most innocent to me. Nogrod can be a dangerous wolf, but a helpful innocent....I'd rather not lynch him this early. Poor Shasta always gets lynched early and turns out innocent...I don't really know about him, but I'd like to give him at least another Day. Same goes with Kath...she keeps dying so early, I'd like to see her actually play before voting her.

That leaves:

Lommy
Legate
Gwath
Groin

Hmmm... Crap. I'm gonna be late to class...