These Three Things I Lost: 80 Years, my Desire and One Ring

[Boromir88]

I went back and read Gandalf's story to Frodo regarding Gollum, and I think it's reasonable to say there are several reasons behind the length of the time frame, either that or Gandalf had no idea and was just making stuff up.

As CSteefel points out, I don't know if Gollum vacillated between Sauron's calling, and the Ring, but Gandalf certainly believed there was internal conflict and the Ring hadn't wholly ruined Gollum:

"Only too true, I fear," said Gandalf. "But there was something else in it, I think, which you don't see yet. Even Gollum was not wholly ruined...There was a little corner of his mind that was still his own, and light came through it, as through a chink in the dark: light out of the past. It was actually pleasant, I think to hear a kindly voice again, bringing up memories of wind, and trees, and sun on the grass, and such forgotten things."

Now Gandalf goes on to say that this only fueled Gollum's anger, and Gollum being "cured" was near impossible (though not beyond hope). But to go back to something alatar pointed out, was Gollum so strongly "addicted" to the Ring?

"...For it was long since he had worn it much: in the black darkness it was seldom needed. Certainly he had never "faded". He is thin and tough still. But the thing was eating up his mind, of course, and the torment become almost unbearable."
"...He was altogether wretched. He hated the dark, and he hated light more: he hated everything ahd the Ring most of all."

So, there certainly is the internal conflict, the calling of the Ring after Gollum loses it, and his attempts to resist, until it became unbearable and he left the mountains.

Also, I imagine Gollum's trek was very slow:

"Light, light of Sun and Moon, he still feard and hated, and he always will, I think; but he was cunning. He found he could hid from daylight and moonshine, and make his way swiftly and softly by dead of night with his pale cold eye...He found his way into Mirkwood, as one would expect."

Even though if he could move "swiftly" if he's only moving around the dead of night, to avoid both the sun and moon, he can't be spending too many hours "on the move." Plus, his physical condition, and while he did start gaining more strength as he was able to catch more food, he left the mountains "mortally hungry."

One more possibly interesting thing to point out about Gollum's character, is his curious nature; or need to "uncover" secrets:

"All the "great secrets" under the mountains had turned out to be just empty night: there was nothing more to find out, nothing worth doing, only nasty furtive eating and resentful remembering."

So, alatar, maybe your random walk makes sense for Gollum's character? Or his need to search through all the niches and secret passages in the unchartered Mordor? The Dead Marshes? Thus explaining his vast knowledge of the area (his vast knowledge of any area he's spent time in...as Gandalf says he was able to avoid capture by the Elves while in Mirkwood) and giving Gollum something else to do besides thinking about getting the Ring.

[CSteefel]

Still as pointed out, it took Gollum from 2944 to 2980 to make his first visit to Shelob and Mordor, so that is some slow going--36 years. So in this regard, I think alatar's suggestion of a random walk makes sense, with Sauron exerting a pull on Gollum that eventually influenced where he ended up.

Only other discrepancy I see is that Sauron supposedly captured Gollum in 3017, but in 3018 the Orcs at Cirith Ungol say that he made his way through "some years ago...". So either they were being inexact (actually referring to the previous year), or Gollum was captured on one of his earlier visits (but this does not seem to be supported by the statements in The Tale of Years or in The Hunt for the Ring).

[CSteefel]

The other perhaps minor point is that Gollum says he was captured on the "cold hard roads" to the East of the Dead Marshes. But one would think that once he learned the passage of the Dead Marshes, he would have only used that path to and from Mordor (as he did when he left Mordor in 3017). In other words, the use of those cold hard roads would have been more likely to be an early mistake, which again implies that perhaps Gollum was captured on one of his earlier visits.

Arguing most strongly against this is the material in The Hunt for the Ring (which agrees with the accounts from The Council of Elrond) that Sauron learned what Gollum knew only in 3017.

[Juicy-Sweet]

Originally Posted by CSteefel

Still as pointed out, it took Gollum from 2944 to 2980 to make his first visit to Shelob and Mordor, so that is some slow going--36 years. So in this regard, I think alatar's suggestion of a random walk makes sense, with Sauron exerting a pull on Gollum that eventually influenced where he ended up.

Only other discrepancy I see is that Sauron supposedly captured Gollum in 3017, but in 3018 the Orcs at Cirith Ungol say that he made his way through "some years ago...". So either they were being inexact (actually referring to the previous year), or Gollum was captured on one of his earlier visits (but this does not seem to be supported by the statements in The Tale of Years or in The Hunt for the Ring).

Love this thread!

I also find it implausible that he spend 36 years trekking south. It should have taken him a year max. So he must have done something else. What would that be?

Looking at Gollum's character, he DOES actually have some interests apart from the ring.

1: He is a CURIOUS fellow, he likes learning new things. And he is willing to expose himself to danger just for fun. When he meets Bilbo, he reveals himsels out of curiosity. If he had just stayed inert, Bilbo would have just passed by. He agrees on the riddle game for much the same reason. He's also mentions having reached out for the dead people in the Dead Marshes. Sam thinks he wants to eat them - I think more he did it just for the heck of it.

2: He is especially interested in secrets nobody else knows and caves. That's part of his nature wanting to get preciousss stuff and keep it to himself.

3: He also does like making clever plans and executing them - he takes pleasure from being clever and his skills. We tricksed them yesss. They thought Smeagol was stupid but he tricksed them alll. Clever Smeagol!

king? Sneaking? Fat Hobbit is always so polite. Smeagol shows them secret ways that nobody else could find, and they say "sneak!" Sneak? Very nice friend. Oh, yes, my precious. Very nice, very nice.

4: He enjoys food - especially fish, but probably also other things. He does seem genuinely happy while consuming a fish, and not bothering about the ring at all at that moment.

Originally Posted by The Passage of the Marshes, TTT

- See, my precious: if we has it, then we can escape, even from Him, eh? Perhaps we grows very strong, stronger than Wraiths. Lord Smeagol? Gollum the Great? _The_ Gollum! Eat fish every day, three times a day; fresh from the sea. Most Precious Gollum! Must have it. We wants it, we wants it, we wants it!

I guess this means he has been to the sea - and that he probably trekked down there to try sea-fish, instead of the fish from lakes and rivers. The South Gondor coast is the closes to Moria.

5: He seems to me to have a great deal of knowledge about many things. For instance, he has seen Lembas before and recognizes it as well. (Dunno if they tried feeding him that while he was a prisoner of Thranduil? )He also knows Southeners and Ring Wraiths. He seems to recognize pretty much anything they come across while he travels with the Hobbits and knows what to do.

From these observations, I think he spent the 36 years just exploring around Mordor for fun, maybe further south as well. Trying to find **really** secret places to make him feel good + maybe looking for the perfect fish.

The reason he didnt tgo straight for the ring. Well - "ring urge" seems to be constantly felt, but controllable. Sauron himself managed to think about other things and not just go bananas about his ring. Bilbo didnt feel "ring urge" while being in Rivendell - then suddenly relapsed.

So the urge to go to Mordor migh have cancelled the calling of the ring out a bit. And pherhaps he thought that after 500 years in a small cave, he needed to brush up on his knowledge of the ways of the world to be effective in finding the ring.

As well, I think he just enjoyed having something new to do.