![]() |
![]() |
Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page |
|
![]() |
#1 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Facing the world's troubles with Christ's hope!
Posts: 1,635
![]() ![]() |
Quote:
I am entirely convinced that Tolkien meant what he said with not being inspired by events of WWII for the The Lord of the Rings, indeed I think that you could draw comparisons between any two things if you put your mind to it. It is neat to look at SOME of the similarities between the two. Gandalf for example would probably be the Winston Churchill of Middle Earth: desperately trying to wake people up to the danger that is coming and eventually succeeding. That was a nice point that you made, Kitanna, in post four. ![]()
__________________
I heard the bells on Christmas Day. Their old, familiar carols play. And wild and sweet the words repeatof peace on earth, good-will to men! ~Henry Wadsworth Longfellow |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 | |||
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 6,003
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Brevity thy name is wit
Whoops, let's not get into personal attacks here; let's just look at the ideas.
![]() Quote:
Quote:
And how would mad Denthor fit into the British situation of the time? Or would that be the king who abdicated rather than give up the woman he loved? Denethor's descent into depression, despair and madness began with his wife's death. Is there something here about men who care too much for their women? No, not really. It is really important to look specifically at what Tolkien said about how a true comparison to WWII would look--it is not a very flattering portrayal of the Allies at all. It would also be very easy to make comparisons between Mordor and Stalinist/communist Russia--both perpetrated unspeakable horrors on people who lived within their territories and both maintained prison camps for people and both persued networks of spies against their own citizens. Generalities can be compared easily but details are what makes a comparison really sustainable. jmho
__________________
I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. Last edited by Bęthberry; 08-01-2008 at 06:52 PM. Reason: oh the horror, the horror! sp!! |
|||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
Sage & Onions
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Britain
Posts: 894
![]() |
![]()
Hi all,
I find myself in good agreement with Bethberry's points (especially the first ![]() Who indeed gets to be Stalin? These sort of major details do not match up well between LoTR and WWII. The overall sort of thing - defeat of an aggressive 'evil empire' does, but not if you dig much deeper. I think that there must be an argument, however, for Tolkien's writing process being affected by current affairs. The jouney started in 1936, and many have commented oh the lighter, 'fairie' feel of the first chapters, if I remember 'It feels diferent near the Shire' was one such thread. By 1940, however, the story is getting darker, and 'greater' if you know what I mean. Certainly I think that living through the most terrible and dramatic events of the 20th century, both WWI and WWII, must have affected the tone and broad themes of the book. I am willing to be proved wrong! Rather OT, but Juno should never be forgotten, my Dad was there with the Canadians that day.
__________________
Rumil of Coedhirion |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 | |
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heaven's basement
Posts: 2,466
![]() ![]() |
Quote:
![]()
__________________
There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
Posts: 2,515
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Or for that matter Italy? Mussolini was a tin-horn dictator and his armies never fared well (their battles in Ethiopia against Selasse were documented fiascos). Mussolini was never considered more than a demagogue and Hitler toadie, and the Italian army crumbled in Africa and Italy without much pressure and little success, so one really couldn't compare Benito with Saruman. Saruman's army was certainly effective (having won at the Battle of the Fords of Isen, for instance) and lost at Helm's Deep due to circumstances beyond their control, even though their battle strategy was sound (it was Saruman's lack of foresight that lost the day, not the army he sent out).
__________________
And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision. |
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 | ||
Child of the West
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Watching President Fillmore ride a unicorn
Posts: 2,132
![]() ![]() |
![]() Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"Let us live so that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." - Mark Twain |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|
![]() |