Werewolf XLVIII: When Virtual Becomes Reality

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

–It's starting to look to me like there's a wolf somewhere in this Agan/Nilp/Form brawl that's just started up. Not sure who it is.

This is not a rhetorical question, I want an answer. Why does it look like that? Is there some special way wolves can make people around them talk like they do? We three have just caught your attention, but is there something that should really suggest that at least one of us is a wolf?
I could ask the same from Kitanna. Just how do back and forth posts together suggest that there's a hacker or two?

Originally Posted by Kitanna

I'd say don't encourage or discourage IC posts, some may be more useful tomorrow or some may remain simple rubbish and mean nothing.

And also some OOC posts may be more useful tomorrow while some remain simple rubbish. The question is whether I rather read posts written in chat speak or proper English.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Form backs it twice: saying it's a random one and using IC reasons (I know he used to be the most staunch Day1-hater there was but still that is pretty much downgrading the whole Day 1). Kitanna feels like she tries and tries to find anything even remotely called a reason for her vote... just read her votepost and you may see what I mean. There is something forced in there to my eye.

I agree. Otherwise at least Kitanna feels somewhat innocentish, though, and I wouldn't vote for either of them now based only on that.

Originally Posted by Eönwë

This is true. One of them might very well be a hacker. But we haven't seen enough of anyone to really be certain.

Nerwen is doing anything useful.

Yet it was Nerwen who first brought up the A/N/F thing you just agreed on.

Ka, you're a hacker! Defend yourself!

**

Guilty
Elf-Warrior. Nothing's changed since my first post.
Sixth. Nothing's changed since my first post.
Durelin. This is my most random suspicion this far, and I don't know a certain reason for it but her post(s) brought the word 'cobbler' into my mind.
Nerwen. She makes me uncomfortable and looks both guilty and innocent so I rather label her guilty. I don't know - there's something in the way she suspects people.
sally. I feel uneasy about her for a reason I don't know.

Innocent
Mith
Kitanna
Nogrod
Eönwë

Neither
Kath
Shasta
Ka
Nilp
Boro
Eomer
Form
Rikae
McC

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Yet it was Nerwen who first brought up the A/N/F thing you just agreed on.

Doesn't make it her idea

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Doesn't make it her idea

But if she says something you find clever and can agree about, I think you shouldn't say she isn't doing anything.

Originally Posted by Eönwë

How do you do that?

By clicking Replies between Last Post and Views on the Mirth (or any else) forum.

I am planning to vote in an hour since I would love to get to sleep a bit earlier than during the last few days, and if I had to vote now it'd probably be for Sixth.

edit: xed with Mith

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

But if she says something you find clever and can agree about, I think you shouldn't say she isn't doing anything.

True, true.

edit: WAIT A SECOND! I said she wasn't doing anything useful, not that she wasn't doing anything. You're twisting my words Aganzir. Sounds like wolfish behaviour to me.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

True, true.

edit: WAIT A SECOND! I said she wasn't doing anything useful, not that she wasn't doing anything. You're twisting my words Aganzir. Sounds like wolfish behaviour to me.

Dodgy post, y'know? Complete over-reaction.

Also, Mithalwen, you may think Sally is being opportunistic, with her vote for 6th, but I could equally well say it about you. Whatever Sally had it was gonna be weak, and this is another chance for you to step in with a righteous comment. She's taken the position of early-voter-with-bad-reason and you've matched her in becoming critic-of-early-voter.

Two sides, same coin.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Dodgy post, y'know? Complete over-reaction.

Maybe I did slightly over-react. But after sorta-agreeing with Agan, I realised that that was not exactly what I said. To me the meanings do make a difference... I'm sure Sixth will explain (if he survives).

x-ed with everyone since... aah! Noggie.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

edit: WAIT A SECOND! I said she wasn't doing anything useful, not that she wasn't doing anything. You're twisting my words Aganzir. Sounds like wolfish behaviour to me.

Haa I didn't even notice this before Eomer posted the quote.
To me "do something" and "do something useful" are practically the same thing so I wasn't even trying to twist your words. Maybe I just don't think idiomatically enough.

[Kath]

Hello! I'm here for a little bit! Maybe even til the deadline, it depends. Would someone mind posting a voting tally if there have been any votes so I can see what's going on while I start to read through?

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

09:49pm Form - Nog
12:50am Kit - N3rw3n
05:29am sally - VI
05:51am Mith - sally

Times are +8GMT

[Nogrod]

My dad went asleep and I seem to have what... 1½ hours to do something useful. Okay. I'll start with having a cigarette (gah, there goes the mod-status ).

I still have my faith on Day 1's being possibly productive and I'm not going to give it up just because of one Day1 when I have not had a chance to do any thinking beside the PC. *fits the IC-situation as well! *

[Rikae]

Sorry I'm late, I didn't realize the day was starting (I was reading HoME for the 16th time).

The Elf-Warrior just seems evil to me, although I couldn't quite explain it - a sort of nervous, tense vibe, much like Maglor's wife observed in Legolas after he swallowed his own hand and turned into a werewolf.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

–It's starting to look to me like there's a wolf somewhere in this Agan/Nilp/Form brawl that's just started up. Not sure who it is.

How do you figure? I didn't have that impression at all. Nilp and Form, in particular, have really given nothing to go on game-wise, so why latch on to them? (Not that giving nothing to go on will be perfectly fine as the game continues).

I'll second Nogrod on Kitanna's vote being eyebrow-raising. It is overly self-conscious, somehow.

Red

Kitanna
The Elf Warrior

Orange

Nerwen
Aganzir
Sally
Eönwë

Yellow

Shasta
Boro
Kath
Durelin
Eomer
Nogrod
Sixth
THE Ka
Form
Nilp
Mith
McCaber

Green

Rikae

EDIT: X'd with Boro, Nog, Ka

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by THE Ka

*looks at watch* - One... two, and three. Right on schedule.

I was wondering when you'd immediately add me to the evil list. Tisk, tisk, Aganzir you're growing a bit forgetful. Or is it just because you remembered you'll never let poor Radagast rest?

I know I have serious traumas and I'm working on them, I really am! But this time only your role tempted me to do that.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I did read the votepost Nogrod, and there's nothing forced about it. It looks more like Kitanna found something she thought is suspicious and thus voted for Nerwen.

I think the tone is somehow apologetic or over-explanatory. But I'm not too concerned about her because her posting looks more innocentish otherwise.

Originally Posted by Rikae

much like Maglor's wife observed in Legolas after he swallowed his own hand and turned into a werewolf.

Have you been reading some fanfic of your own writing?

There's something that is bugging me about Rikae right now. Today seems to be one of those days I can't find proper reasons for my thoughts, but something makes me uneasy. I don't know... She looks like she was weaving a complicated web with truth and lies shattered all around. That's the best I can explain the feeling.
Or making shoes.

Originally Posted by Mith

Why Sixth? I know he has only posted once but he wasn't entirely IC?

I assume you were asking this from me, but I'll answer even if you weren't.
He had one IC joke in his first (and only) post, and then he accused Nerwen, half-jokingly and also with IC reasons. Wolves often throw random suspicion around and wait for someone to carry it on. That's why I'm also suspicious of Nerwen.
Out of those who have posted little and mostly in character, he's the most suspicious.

edit: xed with sally and Mith

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Wolves often throw random suspicion around and wait for someone to carry it on.

That's one thing they do. But the thing I've found them doing more often is waiting for any decent or half-decent suspicions to raise up and then go for it - stronger or milder eg. trying to turn it into a major suspicion or just going with the flow and getting an excuse for their vote.

Looking things from this anlgle would point at least to Eönwë and Kitanna and little less on The Sixth. Both Eönwë and Kitanna had only picked up the talk of the town and managed to include all three in their suspicions (Nilp / Form / Nerwen). I do understand what you people (Boro and Agan) see as innocentish in Kit - I see it as well and am thence a bit worried about voting for her. But I do also see her over-consciousness or carefulness or whatever you'd call it. Also her answer to my quite slight note on that caused a kind of stiff reaction I didn't like.

[Durelin]

Ah, I missed that statement about Nerwen, Mith, which was in the post previous to the one I was paraphrasing (#63 was the one I talked about).

Too bad Shasta and Eomer can't just duel and get a few things out of the way.

(Edited because I figured I should really mention who my first statement was directed to!)

[Mithalwen]

Why Sixth? I know he has only posted once but he wasn't entirely IC?

Formendacil's vote is still niggling me a bit ..... and he was very pompous and used eucatastrophe twice.... that word - I never really understand it .... but he was first up. Could be most annoying.... despite great competition.

My head hurts ... I have lists but the categories are "Trappists, Loons and Irritants" I think I had better keep that one to myself. However some of the Trappists have been amusing even when they have made their isolated posts. Kitanna has been very confident, perhaps the least in character though the last post could be taken either as IC or serious and therefore somewhat defensive.

[THE Ka]

Originally Posted by Lobelia

Ka, you're a hacker! Defend yourself!

*looks at watch* - One... two, and three. Right on schedule.

I was wondering when you'd immediately add me to the evil list. Tisk, tisk, Aganzir you're growing a bit forgetful. Or is it just because you remembered you'll never let poor Radagast rest?

I find this level of regression a bit alarming Lobelia, but I assure you that I am willing to put the past aside for the sake of this game if you are. Right now, I don't find you that suspicious. I mean, I can't see Brinn making you a wolf/hacker again after the last few games. It's too predictable.
If you are, then I know that the universe has lost all sense of surprise.

Thanks Mith. I was thinking about the Id, but I assumed that Eomer might have meant something a bit more on the Superego spectrum. Then I became a bit confused. Freud has never been one of my favourable interests, but I try to make sure I can identify a bit of his behavior.
I'm more in the sociological field. In which case, I would have to say that Eomer's experience in the business subculture has become one of his ascribed roles, and possibly a master status in his reasoning. Though, his assumed role as a form member is causing a bit of social inconsistency. Which is perfectly fine, we all have some inconsistency.

I'm sure a bunch of people are gun-ho about voting for Agan-Nilp-Form bangwagon, but I dunno. I'll feel horribly disappointed in the universe if Agan at least is a hacker out of the three. I need an existential detective, and more time on choosing my horribly random vote to go with all the life drama of the first day.

~ Ka

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I've been fishing, fishing for less than nonsense in this sea of Melkor's discord . . . and very few rise up to take the bait. How am I to fish for the truth now?

Aganzir doesn't feel like she's playing any chord of Melkor's dissonance yet.

Nerwen, as Mandos has told me earlier, looks innocent.

Kitanna and Eomer worries the mind of Manwë.

My mother Mithalwen is in Lórien's peace.

PS. Boromir o' the Numbers, this is a different Eönwë, one with diacritical marks. The other Eonwe, alas, has not been seen in the circles of the World for a long time.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Nilpaurion Felagund

this is a different Eönwë, one with diacritical marks. The other Eonwe, alas, has not been seen in the circles of the World for a long time.

Yes 'tis true. But hopefully I will share the skill that comes with the name (after all, in the book he is the greatest warrior for good- I'm sure Nilp knows the quote by heart- ever).

edit: x-ed with Mith. But then this is WW.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Yet it was Nerwen who first brought up the A/N/F thing you just agreed on.

And anyway, it was a Nilp-Form thing and then you, Aganzir just joined in actually.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

And anyway, it was a Nilp-Form thing and then you, Aganzir just joined in actually.

What was?
If we're talking to one another, does it make it a thing?

I could say I'm very suspicious of that Agan/Mith/Eönwë thing, they spoke about everything unnecessary for a while during the later part of day 1. And both Agan and Mith explained how to check Who's posted to Eönwë! At least one of them must be a wolf, but I don't know yet who.

edit: xed with Mith, Eönwë and Eomer

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

What was?

Large argument. -Ish.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

If we're talking to one another, does it make it a thing?

I could say I'm very suspicious of that Agan/Mith/Eönwë thing, they spoke about everything unnecessary for a while during the later part of day 1. And both Agan and Mith explained how to check Who's posted to Eönwë! At least one of them must be a wolf, but I don't know yet who.

I could tell that that was going to come. But you do make a point.

[Boromir88]

PS. Boromir o' the Numbers, this is a different Eönwë, one with diacritical marks. The other Eonwe, alas, has not been seen in the circles of the World for a long time.~Nilp

I mistook an identity? You know I've not only had my identity mistaken, but have had it stolen. I bet I'm the only person here who has experienced that.

I really don't see why Sixth is that suspicious and it slightly worries me that Sally has jumped into vote for him after Agan and Boro have voiced suspicion - it looks a bit opportunistic and safe.~Mith

I'm curious to hear why you don't think Sixth looks suspicious. Also, jumping on sally's vote for Sixth looks far too easy, I don't buy it. Maybe sally thought the same thing as I did, I just managed to get my post in first.

One thing I want to ask sally is, was your early accusations against Nerwen in jest? What other reason is there for you backing off and voting for Sixth?

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

The second theme has been played, it seems.

Should we not wait for the heretical Sixth Wizard to defend his only post before we jump at his throat?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

One thing I want to ask sally is, was your early accusations against Nerwen in jest? What other reason is there for you backing off and voting for Sixth?

I think she will not be back to answer your question but it kind of raised my eyebrows how many people actually backed off from suspecting Nerwen (Nilp, Eomer...). Does that say anything is another matter. It may be they just joked first and then got into a bussiness-mode or then their first suspicions were hairy in their origin and they backtracked in time hoping to avoid joining the lynchmob of an innocent (whether Nerwen is innocent that is).

[Eönwë]

hmmmm.... Only 50 minutes to decide who gets lynched.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

hmmmm.... Only 50 minutes to decide who gets lynched.

You're my saviour! So there is time! I had totally forgotten we go by the 'Downs time!

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I didn't exactly ''back off'' accusing Nerwen, Nogrod, unless you mean I stopped going on about HOW OFFENSIVE & STOOPID she was being, in a ridiculous IC way.

Nevertheless, I shall not disappoint you in backing right onto her again (oo er! not sure what that sounds like). Aganzir has utterly sworded the idea since so there's no need to repeat that, but Nerwen's willingness to see patterns in interactions, and ''throw stuff against the wall to see what sticks'' is dodgy. Eonwe, of course, agreed with her, and add that to his jumping on Aganzir.

Aganzir, I like. She's speaking sense so I'm definitely wanting to keep her around. Boromir too.

Others I haven't got quite a grip on yet, but Nerwen, Eonwe and Mithalwen are my three wolves at the moment. I'd bet my $8 frappuccino on Mith anyway.

++MITHALWEN

Goodnight

[Eönwë]

I might not be able to be here for the last 30 mins, so I will vote:

++Mithalwen

Because of the way she posts, as if she's hiding behind hersef being IC but not at the same time. Hard to explain what I mean. Also, her attitude seems slightrly suspicious

"You should always sort out the problems nearby before you sort outt problems in the world", says me. And since we both live in "Beleriand" (accordinng to Nilp), she is definitely nearby.


edit: x-ed with Eomer- What??!!! Are you telepathic?

[Nerwen]

HALO EVERY1!!!1111!!! IM BACK!!!!111!!! DID U MISS ME???

–okay, I'll just go back and read everything.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

That's one thing they do. But the thing I've found them doing more often is waiting for any decent or half-decent suspicions to raise up and then go for it - stronger or milder eg. trying to turn it into a major suspicion or just going with the flow and getting an excuse for their vote.

Or then they just bluntly jump on the bandwagon. Or then they defend people who are suspected in order to look better, for "a wolf would surely have just contributed to the lynching of an innocent." Or whatever. Depends on the wolf.
If people you are suspecting also feel evil or whatever in addition to that, I'm fine, but how-would-a-wolf-suspect-someone things are dangerous reasons to solely base suspicion on. A wolf can just choose the explanation that suits her current case best. Though that's the case with everything in WW... I think every word someone says can be used as an argument either for or against them.

I think Nogrod has a good point about people backing off from suspecting Nerwen.

Eönwë's vote came kind of out of the blue. I think he had never even mentioned Mith before that.

xed with two Nogrods, Eönwë, Kath & Nerwen. So much for going to bed early today.

[THE Ka]

I can see the suspicion around Kit, but I guess I will have to take pity on her courage to act in her own reason on Day 1, than bandwagoning or randomly voting. Her actions seem sensible to me, and at least constructive to her own purposes. Better to follow the beat of your own drum than gaggle around someone else’s.
With that, I don’t see much solid reasoning around Kit being overtly suspicious. She’s just doing what she wants to do. Plus, I don’t have any good reason to vote for her either.

Durelin I guess can appear suspicious to someone who hates a long IC post, but I’ve been guilty of that before so not much of a point. Her second post is full of simple reasoning, but there isn’t an overt reason to go after that since its far more constructive than five pages of dueling (*remembers last game*), or dribble. I can assume by toMorrow that she like a few of us will have more time to post and think.

I don’t understand Sally’s vote other than it was a bit anticipated, as if it would be a safeguard in case others decide to randomly vote for Sixth later on. A good first Day tactic, but unfortunately people remember this on the second Day when they really need someone to vote for, or have a hunch on. I’m not exactly certain a wolf would feel so confident voting this way, but werewolf or not if someone was rushed I can see such a vote for the sake of surviving.
I’d prefer a bit of explanation more on how she’s been writing today than the apparent vote, but that will have wait for later.
The vote is obvious and nothing new, I’m curious as to her earlier thoughts.

Rikae’s list is to me, just her list. An insurance that she has some points on the positions of other players. Rather wish she could give more though.

As for Boro88, Kath, and Nogrod, I have nothing on them. Maybe later, I don’t know.

Form, Nilp and Agan bandwagon I really don’t care for in the least. I’m tired of bandwagons. No matter how much fun they are to create or join. So, I am just going to step over it. Plus, already have gone over what will happen if yet again, Agan is a wolf. I don’t have enough experience playing with Form to say much of anything, and I’m going to vainly hope that he has a different role than wolf this time so I don’t loose interest altogether.

Originally Posted by Agan

I know I have serious traumas and I'm working on them, I really am! But this time only your role tempted me to do that.

There, there. Remember, I can’t forgive you Agan, you have to forgive yourself.

Well, I'm running out of time and I have to leave in five minutes (yes, holiday and family), and I'm missing out on some coffee, so I might as well vote now.

If I was as knowledgable as other players about each other they suspect, I probably could have made a better reasoning and vote, but unfortunately I don't. So, I'm going to stick with what I have and avoid the bloody bandwagons.

++ Rikae

It seems like the post could be more, but the use of just a list with names appears like an insurance policy to protect oneself and act easily in aggreance. Like an effort to not ruffle too many feathers, but still contribute something.
Which, is suspicious and can fly under the radar during a first Day like this.

With that I bid you all either a goodnight/holiday/good day/ etc.

~ Ka

[Durelin]

I love how people always like to create little conspiracy theories on Day 1, through the banter. ToDay we have the "Agan/Nilp/Form / Agan-Nilp-Form brawl," which Nerwen seems to have first coined.

Nerwen seems the easy lynch target o' the day, largely perhaps because of her role. People have definitely been *testing the waters* on lynching her. Don't really think it's fair to go after her again on Day 1, myself.

Don't have much time, so won't get much of anything interesting from me...anyway, Kitanna bothers me. She picked up Nerwen's lovely conspiracy theory to stir that up, and then voted for Nerwen. Hmm.

++Kitanna

Edit: Crossed with everyone from Eomer on.

[The Elf-warrior]

Nerwen, I'd like to point out that you mislabeled Formy's words with mine back in post #12. The following is a random vote.

++The Sixth Wizard

If this is suspicious so be it.

[satansaloser2005]

Come on people, let's not leave this to Brinn to (kind of) decide. Ties suck.



EDIT: Oh G'lord. x'd since Rikae.

[Aganzir]

++ Sixth

edit: xed with Nog

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Kath random-votes. At least she's honest. Of course, a random-vote during Day 1 is nearly guaranteed not to be followed up, making it quite safe (and possibly wolf-on-wolf). (Shasta)

With 12 votes still remaining? I doubt a wolf-on-wolf vote would have been a viable strategy then, especially since Eönwë is suspicious.

I would like to see some reasoning behind this list [of Nilp's]: (Aganzir)

It's called gauging reactions. Most of the time I can't do it on WW cos of time restrictions on my part, but since I said I'll be taking this game more seriously (hence the waking up at 5am to participate in DAY-end activities*), I thought I could use it this time. It works most of the time for me with real people.

I'm rather crestfallen that Durelin and Nogrod didn't react.

I see, though, I don't need to provoke reaction from you. You give it to me freely.
__________________
*Though toDAY I can't. Wake up at 5am, that is.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nilpaurion Felagund

It's called gauging reactions.

I am not sure how versatile reactions you get when your accusations come out of nowhere and have no reasons behind them. Either people demand an explanation or ignore them as jokes.

And of course I give my reaction freely. It's all about openness, you know. And I have nothing to hide.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

It's disappointing that I have to vote soon, and the DAY hasn't even advanced beyond its starting page.

Shasta is quite helpful. I'd like to keep him around.

sally my daughter is having fun. (I hope you did get to watch the Dr. Who finale, vzv, so you can get back to contributing. )

FormenDAGA can't get over his hatred for DAY 1s. I share your pain, brother, but it's already DAY 2. Even if we don't have a NIGHT kill (which, I agree, would have been a treasure trove of solid information), we still have the rather exciting voting from yesterDAY. Use it.

The Elf-Warrior remains cryptic.

Eönwë is quite prickly toDAY. *rubs chin*

Aganzir wants me. I don't think you're ready for this jelly.

I am not sure how versatile reactions you get when your accusations come out of nowhere and have no reasons behind them. Either people demand an explanation or ignore them as jokes. (Aganzir)

Which is a reaction in itself; I can live with either. And of course they'd have no reason yet; it was the 1st page of DAY 1, and I was trying to get discussion flowing away from IC posting.

Eomer is . . . Wargy. Whatever that means--which I don't.

2. Nilpaurion Felagund. Described the events as a ''train wreck''. Hardly. Just because we lynched an innocent? That usually happens in Werewolf. It gives us stuff to talk about the next day.

As I said, we need not have killed an villager who didn't get to defend himself . . . Although I remember in WWVII that you were rather eager to protect the cannon fodder--me. Hmmm . . . What to make of this.

Blah, I'll play a game of DoTA with the accursed AI+ first before I vote. Hope to see more of you then.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Eomer is . . . Wargy. Whatever that means--which I don't.
As I said, we need not have killed an villager who didn't get to defend himself . . . Although I remember in WWVII that you were rather eager to protect the cannon fodder--me. Hmmm . . . What to make of this.

You honour me, brother Nilp. If I should be permitted to achieve only a small measure of the glory of Wargs...

Anyway, I agree the votes for VI were a bit strange and probably not the best option for any innocents who might have chosen him, but I still think describing it as ''a train-wreck'' could have had a darker motive.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nilpaurion Felagund

Aganzir wants me.

...dead.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Maybe I'm prejudiced here, Aganzir, but your activity yesterDay gives me a nasty impression of shopping around for someone to lynch.

Do you have anything solid to back it up so it wouldn't look like you're just trying to make people feel uncomfortable about me?

Originally Posted by Nerwen

On the other hand, at least you didn't vote "at random" or giving IC reasons, unlike some people I could mention.

"I suspect you but I don't."
Are you trying to make it look like I was your fellow wolf or gain an ally by speaking nicely of my vote?

Originally Posted by Boro

What were their reactions, what are you wondering about?

We both wanted her to explain why she thought so.

I think I wouldn't mind lynching her today. At least rather than Eönwë.

I'm leaving now, will be back later.