Tol-in-Gaurhoth XLVII: Dueling Wizards Werewolf II

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Roa

(Just a note about the rules- I don't believe we are allowed to use evidence on threads outside of this one, including the Grimoire.)

The classical question...

I think the main question is what we count as "evidence".

If someone fex. defends her voting early with "I had no possibility to get online after that moment" and then someone picks the same person posting on other threads (or hanging on the messenger or Facebook) after that and brings that fact forwards, then it would surely count as evidence outside the game and thence wrong (even if in this particular case the one lying would have been quite unethical or unsporty herself as well).

But we all remember things from previous games, from RL, from our overall experience with others and use that kind of reasoning all the time at least when we form our personal suspicions and trusts. Sometimes it might be quite bad - as in one of my first games when Sleepy Ranger was the mod and wrote something in the death-scene that people knowing him better were able to interpret as pointing to The Ka and she was lynched by that information and turned out a werewolf.

I'd say that is not evidence in the strict sense of the word though and as such is not prohibited by the rules.

But I'd encourage people to articulate their ideas by "in-game" based suspicions or good feelings even if those suspicions / good feelings actually arise privately from a much wealthier pool of knowledge (or after actually searching other games / threads). That makes the games more sportsmanlike and in its own way makes this game more open to new players as well.

So if you suspect someone or feel good about someone for any outside-of-the-game basis do still try to formulate them into an in-game argument.

This is an eternity-problem. I know.

[mormegil]

Roa, you will neither understand nor agree, but I will articulate what I can. You seem to be trying to wrest control of the village and to sway popular opinion with early retoric. The problem is, you specialize in this and do it very well. So in and of itself it's not suspicious and acutally is fairly normal. However, my concern is the vibe you are sending me. I am putting myself in the 'lone wolves' place right now and thinking of how I would behave and it's strikingly similar to how you are. You present a good case on Lal, it's well fashioned and logical, but that's part of the problem...you seem almost too emotionless for me, you don't seem lost, if you know what I mean and the only person not lost right now is the last wolf ergo you are a suspect in my mind. Savvy?

[Lalaith]

Yep, Legate did post once, and Eonwe actually posted quite a lot.
I wonder why he didn't vote?
*Looks up*
Thanks for the clarification, Nogs.

So, other thoughts:
Sally is very cheerful and helpful, and seems to have escaped suspicion altogether so far. Perhaps another player who knows her better can have a look at her.
I am also worried about all these players being so quiet - Eonwe, Legate and Shasta. Particularly Shasta.


Next, I am going to look again at Morm. This may however be in a few hours.

[satansaloser2005]

DAY 5

Post #1222 (6:32pm)
Says our odds aren't going to get much better, compliments master Phantom on his de-wolfing of Durie, and says he'll wait to say more until Durie returns. (Lommie, in post #1227 (6:42pm), says he could still speak his mind before Durie returns)

I agree with Lommie here, that he could have spoke without Durie present (it would have given us more to work with). But it's irrelevant now, sadly.


Post #1258 (11:46pm)
Wonders if Rikae's “reveal” was to save Cailin or if it was coincidental. Thinks Rikae wouldn't have gone to so much trouble to save a replaceable wolf. Asks Durie if she knows Cellie is a wolf or if she's just guessing/suspicious.

Gwath's being a little co-dependent at this point. Hold on though, he explains why later. (And unfortunately, when I found him suspicious it was because I missed his explanation post. Crap!)


Post #1259 (11:59pm)
Clears up his vote for Rikae from the previous Day.


Post #1260 (12:10am)
Pulls up Izzy's suspicion list from the previous Day (containing Lommie, Roa, Lal, and Morm). Says that one of these could be the wolf, or else someone could be setting it up to look that way. Doesn't know who to vote, and says the last few days of being instructed by gifteds has reduced his reasoning capacity.

He puts up information, and then presents both sides of what could have happened the previous Night. So far, it's unhelpful and he's not really saying anything (and by that, I don't mean he's not being unhelpful to us, but that he's not giving the wolves a reason to kill him).


Post #1274 (9:34am)
Explains why he's been so anxious to talk to Durie, saying that he wants to make sure that Durie wasn't being lied to about Cellie's wolfishness before he voted for her. Says Morm is trying too hard to make him look suspicious, and says we should all consider that Rikae may have lied to her pack.

Now, this makes sense, but if I was a wolf I would have taken this opportunity to accuse Gwath later, not kill him in the Night. (Again, sorry Gwath, I missed this post, and it definitely makes sense, but we all believed Durie because she wouldn't probably release information without being sure of it, so you understand why I could see the wolf using it to frame you....hmmmm, who else did you say it was again? )


Post #1276 (9:58am)
Still not certain, wants to poke around and discuss more before lynching Cellie.

And that is why I could (before) see him being suspicious, because we'd been handed a wolf and he was trying to maybe lynch someone else. So I don't know why the wolf would have killed him instead of keeping him around in hopes some idiot (like me) would suspect him; it would have been an easy enough case to put together. Blah.


Post #1277 (10:23am)
Says he believes Durie, but still wants to know how she knows Cellie's a wolf. Votes Cellie.

Already discussed. He's overly inquisitive, and the wolf could use that against him later. Why kill him? (which brings us to....)

DAY 6

Post #1325 (9:17pm)
Check-in post


Post #1328 (9:25pm)
Chatty Kathy-ing. Says if he was the EW, he'd have scried Roa.

Hmmmm....


Post #1330 (9:33pm)
Confusion about when the last wolf was scried, as well as why Eon and Kath are considered to have been known innocents on Day 4.

Nothing here, except for again, he's not posing a threat to the wolf.


Post #1333 (9:46pm)
Thanks Roa and I for clearing up his questions.


Post #1336 (10:17pm)
Says Legate and Shasta would be good picks, but maintains he would have picked Roa, as she could just keep being loud and avoid suspicion.

Okay, so he brings up other suspects but keeps clinging to Roa as his main suspect. Maybe that's what got him killed? Either Roa or a frame-up job for her, one of the two.


Post #1347 (12:21am)
Says he'll be gone toMorrow. Speaks of his “fan club” and how Rikae probably didn't know about his lynching track record. Asks me why I thought he knew roles. Says Lal is probably not a wolf, and counts her as innocent as Durie.

On the contrary, Rikae could easily read old games and find out your history; she applied for EW, so she had plenty of time on her hands. But irrelevant now, obviously.

The thing I'd like to bring up here (though it isn't about why Gwath died) is that we should NOT consider Lal innocent. It's likely, but the only known role is Durie (and our own, to each of us of course). That leaves each person with 8 suspects, and while we each may find certain people suspicious/innocent, we can't guarantee anyone but Durie. Just my opinion on the matter, nothing more. Rikae's twisted (she's definitely proven it, silly girl) and I wouldn't put it past her to take that much of a risk on Lal.

And another thing. Gwath wouldn't have been here toDay anyway; why kill him last Night instead of getting rid of a more active player and dealing with him the next Night? That's what really bothers me about his death; it was unnecessary.


Post #1362 (9:49am)
Says it's too quiet. Still says he would have picked Roa if he was the EW. Votes Roa.

Still clinging to his suspicion of Roa, although he doesn't mention her in detail a lot. So he's mostly operating off his own choice and hunches; not a bad idea necessarily, but he stuck to her like Krazy Glue and I wonder if Roa would have made that obvious of a kill. You tell me.

[satansaloser2005]

's anyone here? (Not sure if you're all mid-post or if you're away, since the last post was an hour ago)


Well, I'll wait a bit, and while I do.

Why didn't Eon vote yesterDay? We all know he was around for a while, he posted a bit, but he didn't vote. Why? Sorry, it always irks me a bit when people don't vote and there's a tie. (Not to say anything against Legate of course, as he told us all he wouldn't be around) I'm sure there was a good reason, I'd just rather like to hear it, know what I mean?

[Eönwë]

Then, on to Sally.

She's quite nice to everyone, but she seems of late more bright and cheerful than before (I'd better go and check some posts to back up this point later on).

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

So, other thoughts:
Sally is very cheerful and helpful, and seems to have escaped suspicion altogether so far. Perhaps another player who knows her better can have a look at her.

Indeed, please do. Seriously, please do. I'm afraid that if no one suspects me, I'll be wolf killed, and I really don't want that. So suspect me....anyone....

*is slightly kidding, but not really*