Tolkien & killling?

[HerenIstarion]

I have no time nor capacity to give you my opinions of the whole affair discussed above (said opinions may prove boring after all), but something drew my attention, which I'm reluctant to leave without notice:

by Bill Ferny

While that conversation reveals that orcs have distinct personalities, you would be hard pressed to prove any virtue resided in their psyches

And though I risk leading this thread in quite opposite direction, I'm nevertheless is willing to pour a little light on the subject

some disclaimer first:

Though it is never backed up by textual evidence I personally believe Shagrat and Gorbag (and Grishnakh as well, to be honest)to be not ordinary 'beast-orks' but degraded or lesser Umaiar (cf this)

Reasons for such a belief being quite plain:

• Both are in command of quite important military posts

• Both talk about "good old times" as if remembering those

• Both recognize and follow up some kind of moral code

the last statement being most important for me in this case

The big fellow with the sharp sword doesn't seem to have thought him worth much anyhow – just left him lying: <font color="red">regular elvish trick

That is Gorbag speaking to Shagrat. Without talking it over both agree that leaving companion on the road is a bad thing, and though they both mockingly refer to 'Ufthak' who is found alive in Shelob's lair and abandoned, the 'trick' is ascribed to elves.

(btw, one may further speculate that Ufthak may be an ordinary beast ork, not Umaia, so is not considered as equal and worth helping}

So the point which I were driving at may be stated thus: creature recognising moral code, though not living up to it, can not be considered lost completely and can not be considered as part of mere automata either And Shagrat along with Gorbag, to my eye, are just such creatures

Sauron would not evaluate leaving wounded comrade on the road as bad thing, for him it would have been merely practical