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#1 | |
shadow of a doubt
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Back on the streets
Posts: 1,125
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T'was, I swear sir!
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![]() I guess my argument hinges on the fire intended to block exit out of the east gate, not entry into it I emphasive. If this fire's constantly being maintained as a precaution I've no case, but I don't think a fire of this magnitute could or would be maintained indefinitely. Besides, who'd expect anyone to try to pass through Moria? I believe the fire was lit with the explicit intent to stop the fellowship that entered Moria a few days earlier through the west gate from ever reaching the east gate and the sunlight on the other side. The problem with this interpretation is, of course, the issue of how the hunters twarted outside the west gate could alert their colleagues on the east side about the expected arrival of the fellowship, before it was too late and they'd already passed though. It also makes you wonder just how much Sauron and Sauruman respectedly knew about what was going on in Moria, and of just who it was that sounded the alarm.
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"You can always come back, but you can't come back all the way" ~ Bob Dylan Last edited by skip spence; 05-26-2008 at 12:01 PM. |
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#2 | |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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Not 100%, I must note, but I presume that from what we know.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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#3 | |
shadow of a doubt
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Back on the streets
Posts: 1,125
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Orc 1:"I told you to light a fire to the right of the emergency exit, not to the left of it you, you lousy maggot!" Orc 2: "Sorry boss, I thought you meant my right, which is your left, if you see what I mean sir... (getting a bit off topic here, sorry)
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"You can always come back, but you can't come back all the way" ~ Bob Dylan |
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#4 | |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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Oh, I see. But then, to settle the matter, I think the answer is in the book. Gandalf says:
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So, hope this explains it, and if so, settles the question ![]()
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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#5 | |
shadow of a doubt
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Back on the streets
Posts: 1,125
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Still, I can't shake the feeling there's something fishy about the situation (Gollum? Nah!). I mean, aren't Orcs better at ambushing in their own domain? Shouldn't they've planned the whole thing a bit better? Perhaps they did not live here and were just as afraid and lost as the fellowship? Nah! Maybe my problem is I can't clearly visualize the size, manner and more importantly, location of the Chamber relative to the Orc's attack route, the main road and to the fire.
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"You can always come back, but you can't come back all the way" ~ Bob Dylan Last edited by skip spence; 05-31-2008 at 11:35 AM. |
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#6 |
Dead Serious
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Despite an absolutely fascinating fourteen-year-old discussion about Boromir (of all characters for this chapter!), and some promising comparisons to be made between Moria and Lórien, I'm going to go far more Reader Response than analysis with this chapter than usual, because its final paragraphs were referenced back to me of late by a friend (and a non-Downer friend at that!) and have been on my mind and I realise that Cerin Amroth has had something of a strong effect on me.
Specifically, the line: "here is the heart of Elvendom on earth," and the sadness this engenders upon rereading knowing that it is about to be said of Aragorn that "he left the hill of Cerin Amroth and came there never again as living man." Although Cerin Amroth is not even in the top twenty moments or scenes I think of first when thinking of The Lord of the Rings, these two coupled lines, which bracket this moment for me, are chiselled into my understanding of this book and retain their shapes in the leafmould of my own mind. Since 2010 I have been an immigrant--not, perhaps, from one very different culture to another, but I am 3000 miles as the wolf runs from what was once my home "and [t]here my heart dwells ever," if I may be so bold as to apply the words of Aragorn to myself. Like Aragorn coming into this chapter, I will likely revisit "the heart of Elvendom on earth" (very much redefining "Elvendom" here to mean something more like "home"--but that is, I think, still in keeping with the mood of Aragorn's speech here), but inevitably there will be a last visit and I will come "never again as living man." I bring all this up not to evoke some sort of pity for me, but because I think these two snippets of text, shaded in by the narrative around them, form one of the great examples of how Tolkien's writings have helped me process and understand my own life. Aragorn still has Gondor and marriage and Eldarion and plenty other great things in his future--but he will never revisit this moment. And consider what "the heart of Elvendom on earth" means as a statement coming from someone who was raised among the Eldar! This scene, which is close to essential to understanding the character of Aragorn (and the essence of many things in the book) is almost impossible to imagine in Peter Jackson's movies. This isn't exactly a question of faithfulness, though it draws that in, as of dimension: this transcendant otherliness of things like Lórien (and, for that matter, the sinful wretchedness of somethings at the far end of the same continuum) are lacking in the movie--whether they CAN'T be portrayed in movies, like depth in a 2-D picture, is a question I leave for other minds to ponder.
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I prefer history, true or feigned.
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