The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
Old 05-23-2008, 09:51 AM   #7
Legate of Amon Lanc
A Voice That Gainsayeth
 
Legate of Amon Lanc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.Legate of Amon Lanc is spying on the Black Gate.
Looks like a little excourse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard View Post
Hmm... if anything I would think that the elves would be more like the Jews. After all they were the first beings to be created, that ties into them being God's chosen people
Just a side note: if you were to ascribe such thing to anyone in M-E, it would be the Dúnedain, I think (or then, some Vanyar, if you were to stick to the Elves. However). Because "chosen people" are already chosen (obviously) from some group which already exists. Using the biblical comparison, God created all people, and Abraham is just one of them (and even that after a long time). But Adam, Eve and all the others are simply ordinary people. Also, in Middle-Earth you have the problem with there being two, and not just one, such races - Men and Elves. And if we were to seek for a nation, or a group among them with the vocation like the biblical Israel, then I don't think there actually really is such a nation in the very same sense. Among the Men, like I said, I would speak about the Dúnedain. Because between the Elves, you really don't have anyone who would be specifically chosen to mediate, or at least carry, Eru's (or anyone's) will. We cannot compare it to the invitation to Valinor, as that's actually the opposite direction. And in any case, all Elves are invited by Oromë personally, it's not that he would invite just one group and then f.ex. let them tell to the rest (however that's not exactly the role ascribed to the biblical Israel as well). And by leaving, that group will leave the other Elves in Middle-Earth. That doesn't make sense. We would be looking for some Anti-Noldor, probably: a group who will be re-sent to Middle-Earth to act in a certain way among the other nations. However even then it will be just a single act, once they left, the contact with Valinor will be cut again. So, maybe some Teleri? Like the ones who kept communicating with Númenor. Or then, among the Men, the Dúnedain themselves. After their return to Middle-Earth after the fall of Númenor, the role of Dúnedain was probably the closest to the role of the Chosen People: to be a living reminder of something among the other nations (of Men, in this case). However, still in contrary to the people of biblical Israel, the Dúnedain had a prominent role in the structures of power in Middle-Earth.

If I were to say whom I really think close to this, it will be only one person, and that's Tuor, who is personally in contact with one of the Valar (!) and is given a certain task. But that's only one episode, however by its nature I consider it very close. Also, this trait goes with his family - Eärendil later is the one to reach Valinor and is given the favour to speak again to the Valar and ask for help as a representative of all the other inhabitants of Middle-Earth; and ultimately, it comes down to their descendants, who are the Dúnedain - so this is what I said above. So maybe this.

Hmm... But that would be probably better for another thread.

In any case, I don't think the way you put it was not the original meaning of how the comparison was meant. It concerned only language, and nothing else. Unfortunately, there is just a very little of Khudzul known, as far as I know. In the risk of another off-topic chain, but just as a question, was there any more of Khudzul in Tolkien's work asides from things like Khazad-Dum or the names of the mountains or such?
__________________
"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories
Legate of Amon Lanc is offline   Reply With Quote
 


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:46 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.