Is it possible: 1 Silmaril found: The Arkenstone - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Formendacil · 05-08-2008, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Would the dwarves ever consider cutting and fashioning a peerless gem such as a Silmaril?

A stronger objection in the same vein might run thus: COULD the Dwarves even cut and fashion a Silmaril? I believe there is something in the Silmarillion to the effect that the Silmarils were unbreakable except by Fëanor himself, so craftily were they made.

Or it's too late at night and I'm getting things confused. Don't think so though...

In any case, without giving a fuller argument at all, count me down as quite opposed to any suggestion that the Arkenstone was a Silmaril.

Macalaure · 05-09-2008, 01:54 PM

I think only some rampant and unfounded speculation can help us to solve this question.

Just as Gwaihir said in the thread Hookbill linked to, the Silmaril could have traveled via the convective force within the mantle of Middle-earth and resurfaced thousands of miles away. The fact that the Lonely Mountain was, well, lonely, suggests a volcanic origin.

Now, how can the Arkenstone be the Silmaril if it doesn't meet its appearance and size? During its travels through the mantle, it would be possible that other material has settled around it, making increasing its size. Nothing would speak against the Dwarves cutting this outer material, fashioning the resulting Arkenstone, without ever touching the Silmaril inside. The Silmaril's beauty and attraction would be diminished, but still great. Its power to burn unclean flesh could be affected, too.

It is also entirely possible that a few people, such as Gandalf, knew about its secret, but wisely concealed it so that no (more) trouble about it would emerge.

Eönwë · 05-09-2008, 04:58 PM

Macalaure, this is a good point, quite similar to what I thought before.

Also, if I remember correcctly, there were no gems before the Noldor, so the Arkenstone must have come from somewhere.

Macalaure · 05-10-2008, 05:13 AM

Whoops... didn't read the first post carefully enough.

Just ignore me.

William Cloud Hicklin · 05-11-2008, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Also, if I remember correcctly, there were no gems before the Noldor, so the Arkenstone must have come from somewhere.

That was Tolkien's earlier idea, but helater changed his mind: the Noldor first found gems, but didn't invent them.

Morthoron · 05-12-2008, 06:05 AM

Then, there is the apocryphal statement that Feanor will unlock the Silmarils at the end of the world (after Tolkien's version of Ragnarok). Plus, I don't think there was enough time, geophysically speaking, for an errant gem to find its way from the edge of the Belegaer all the way to the heart of Erebor and embed itself in a crust of rock for the Dwarves to conveniently find and tinker with. Things like that don't occur in a 5 or 10 thousand year period. Unless of course it wanted to be found...mwahahaha.

Gwathagor · 05-12-2008, 09:53 PM

Well...one Silmaril did fall into the earth. Perhaps that was nearer to Erebor. Or was that one consumed by magma? But, even if it wasn't, I think it's a good point that there would not have been enough time for more crystal-junk to accumulate around the gem, which is necessary for the transformation into the Arkenstone. I rather doubt that anyone other than Feanor would have had the ability to alter a Silmaril, so without extra crystal formation around it, the dwarves probably wouldn't have been able to do any cutting or shaping - nor would they have wanted to.

05-09-2008, 04:58 PM	#3
Eönwë Flame Imperishable Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Right here Posts: 3,928	Macalaure, this is a good point, quite similar to what I thought before. Also, if I remember correcctly, there were no gems before the Noldor, so the Arkenstone must have come from somewhere. __________________ Welcome to the Barrow Do-owns Forum / Such a lovely place Last edited by Eönwë; 05-12-2008 at 04:34 PM.

05-12-2008, 06:05 AM	#6
Morthoron Curmudgeonly Wordwraith Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits Posts: 2,515	Then, there is the apocryphal statement that Feanor will unlock the Silmarils at the end of the world (after Tolkien's version of Ragnarok). Plus, I don't think there was enough time, geophysically speaking, for an errant gem to find its way from the edge of the Belegaer all the way to the heart of Erebor and embed itself in a crust of rock for the Dwarves to conveniently find and tinker with. Things like that don't occur in a 5 or 10 thousand year period. Unless of course it wanted to be found...mwahahaha. __________________ And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.

05-12-2008, 09:53 PM	#7
Gwathagor Shade with a Blade Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: A Rainy Night In Soho Posts: 2,512	Well...one Silmaril did fall into the earth. Perhaps that was nearer to Erebor. Or was that one consumed by magma? But, even if it wasn't, I think it's a good point that there would not have been enough time for more crystal-junk to accumulate around the gem, which is necessary for the transformation into the Arkenstone. I rather doubt that anyone other than Feanor would have had the ability to alter a Silmaril, so without extra crystal formation around it, the dwarves probably wouldn't have been able to do any cutting or shaping - nor would they have wanted to. __________________ Stories and songs.

05-09-2008, 01:54 PM	#2
Macalaure Fading Fëanorion Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: into the flood again Posts: 2,911	I think only some rampant and unfounded speculation can help us to solve this question. Just as Gwaihir said in the thread Hookbill linked to, the Silmaril could have traveled via the convective force within the mantle of Middle-earth and resurfaced thousands of miles away. The fact that the Lonely Mountain was, well, lonely, suggests a volcanic origin. Now, how can the Arkenstone be the Silmaril if it doesn't meet its appearance and size? During its travels through the mantle, it would be possible that other material has settled around it, making increasing its size. Nothing would speak against the Dwarves cutting this outer material, fashioning the resulting Arkenstone, without ever touching the Silmaril inside. The Silmaril's beauty and attraction would be diminished, but still great. Its power to burn unclean flesh could be affected, too. It is also entirely possible that a few people, such as Gandalf, knew about its secret, but wisely concealed it so that no (more) trouble about it would emerge.

05-10-2008, 05:13 AM	#4
Macalaure Fading Fëanorion Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: into the flood again Posts: 2,911	Whoops... didn't read the first post carefully enough. Just ignore me.