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#1 |
Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,460
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The Two Towers
http://www.tolkienradio.com/twotowers.html
This episode I imagine may be a little different in the more recent version since Frodo and Same remain in "The Two Towers" while the others have moved on in to "The Return of the King". Having found the length of time that the paths diverge the barrier to finishing the book the first time I tried to read it - I was only nine and remembering what had gone on hundred of pages before was an unequal struggle and gave up at the rather gloomy end of The Two Towers - I wouldn't presume to say that you improved on Tolkien but it certainly provides variety and in this case enables parralels to be drawn more easily. We start with Faramir and Frodo & co in Ithilien. Much of the dialogue is more or less straight from the book, skilfully edited including that wonderful bit where Sam is a far from servile servant and not withstanding that he is effectively the man's prisoner, gives Faramir a piece of his mind. Faramir is very eloquent, almost poetic, and Andrew Seear's voice suits it well, as he moves from inquisitor, to bereaved brother, to loreman and judge. Appropriately we then switch to Eowyn and Aragorn as she attempts to dissuade him from taking the paths of the Dead or at least take her along, and her feelings for Aragorn, hinted at in her few words last episode are made much more explicit. We follow Aragorn and the Grey Company through the haunted mountain then return to Frodo and the capture of Gollum, and another much needed moment of humour to lighten the gathering darkness "Don't want Fish!", before Frodo embarks on his journey toinas Morgul despite Faramir's forboding. Then we go to Gandalf and Pippin being a most unquenchable hobbit and more little references to things that are not essential to the plot but gladden the hearts of the book devotee (no dumbing down for Radion 4!!! - cannot see gratuitous references to Armenelos being allowed in Holywood.) We meet the last major player - Denethor. Another great performance hear from Peter Vaughan, famous as "Grouty" from Porridge but a great character actor in many other things. Pippin offers the Steward his service. We then rejoin Eowyn, this time with Theoden and Eomer. She has received the Red Arrow - the formal summons of Gondor for the aid of the Rohirrim. We briefly rejoin Frodo in a nightmarish landscape as the darkness literally spreads across the land - not only in Morgul Vale but spreading out to be sighted from Rohan "eating up the stars" . Theoden is fatalistic but for Frodo there is a moment of optimism at the crossroads and the statue of the fallen king a crown of trailing flowers like white stars. They cannot conquer for ever.. The Rohirrim depart and Merry is released from his short service but accepts Dernhelm's offer to bear him to battle. I haven't much time now but one of the things that the juxtaposition of the threads throws in to relief is this question of duty and keeping oaths, obeying orders. Theoden is fulfilling the Oath of Eorl while Aragorn leads an army of Oathbreakers - the price of breaking an oath is clearly a terrible doom. Merry and Eowyn disobey orders and abandon duty but ... well we know how that will end. Faramir speaks twice about lives being forfeit - yet he uses his discretion to allow Frodo on his way. Then there is Frodo and the oaths Gollum swears on the precious, and Frodo tricking Gollum to save his life. Critics often say that the book is black and white, Good v Evil...but there is a lot of moral ambiguity here (which is I need to go back to on the Age of Anxiety thread!). The other thing which crops up here again (as with the Ents) is how men have become detached from the other races of middle earth. This is really the last hurrah of the free peoples before they disappear into folklore. Sorry it is a Mith style ramble rather than a Dave style essay but it is a start.
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“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”
Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace |
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#2 |
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 6,003
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I haven't had time to follow this excellent thread but today for the first time I had a chance to look at the transcripts. Aside from the very unique study of the BBC radio show (which I do promise to catch up on, hopefully, as long as my garden allows me), I was quite surprised by something else.
What was that you ask? (Well, assuming anyone is reading/listening ![]() It's a very small site and has had its ups and downs, but this spring it is sponsoring something which I think it kinda cool. So, for anyone within sewing or volunteering distance of the big, bad TO, here's the project: helping the Children's Aid Foundation prepare prom clothes and acessories for girls who are unable to afford the formal celebration of as they reach that milestone, graduating from high school. Here's the link to Wellinghallsmial Tolkien Society. And here's the link to The Corsage Project. Somehow I think that somewhere there's a spirit like Rosie Cotton's at work here, or maybe it is the spirit of Rosie and Sam's daughters. EDIT: Having said that about Rosie, I must not fail to acknowledge the prime seamstress in Middle-earth, Arwen. Of course, she devoted her skills to battle insignia and gave up her life eternal for a mere Man. And according to the Appendix she did not leave any special remembrance for her daughtes. Ah well. Perhaps I shall catch up with the BBC radio show in time to hear her words at her wedding. I don't suppose the BBC show included the Appendices?
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I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. Last edited by Bęthberry; 04-26-2008 at 05:38 PM. |
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#3 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Out West near a Big Salty Lake
Posts: 76
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A few items that I really noticed in this episode. I love the interaction of Faramir and Frodo and Frodo's reaction when Faramir informs him of the death of Boromir. Ian Holm continues to really portray Frodo here as one whose despair is growing, and who sees little hope in fulfilling his quest, but his duty, his obligation as given to him at the Council is to continue.
Andrew Seear's portrayl of Faramir here is as I imagined he would be. He is able to show Faramir's power of perception in his dealings with Frodo when they are walking with the leaves crunching under their feet. I think this is important because it shows later why Faramir is able to see the evil and corruption of the ring, and to steer a clear course. This is not something outright, but something I have interpreted based on the script the actors are using, and from their own inflection and interactions. I also think the incident with Frodo, Sam and Faramir while sitting together talking at Henneth Annűn, shows that Faramir acts according to what he feels and knows to be right, and for doing the right thing, one should not be praised for it, for the honor is to oneself in knowing you are doing Ohat is right. I think the scene here reflects that and takes it to a higher level of where Faramir is not looking for praise because he simply acts with what he believes is right and that is enough. Aragorn in the Paths of the Dead for me shows his kingly nature, and takes it up to do his role in defeating Sauron. I like how Aragorn shows here to Halbarad that if they control their own fear, their horses will pick up on that and go with them on the path. I also admire here, as I did in the book, Halbarad going forth knowing he was going to his own death, yet remaining loyal nevertheless. The final comment is on the last scene between Faramir and Frodo. Faramir knows from talking with Gollum that he is up to no good. He begs Frodo not to go with him and Frodo turns the table on Faramir. Frodo informs Faramir that he cannot leave Gondor and show him a way over or under the mountains. And if he takes the ring to Minis Tirith it will destroy that city and make it like its twin city, Minus Ithil/Morgul. Faramir concludes with Frodo that the quest is hopeless and that he has not hope to reunite and they embrace and say good-bye. I really enjoyed this interaction and realized in listening to it, why for me, Ian is acting Frodo the way he is. I have to admit that in the past my own critical comment of Ian's portrayal of Frodo, is Frodo gets to cranky and to hopeless. However, I think that is the point. The ring is wearing on Frodo and using only auditory, this is how we the listener pick up on this. I've noticed it slowly increases as Frodo gets closer and closer to Mordor and Mt. Doom. Again, something subtle, but I believe it is there in the adaptation. On a sidebar; today my son and I were traveling back and forth to a University for some recitals and other things (and it is an hour up and an hour back) and so we got to finish listening to the 1968 adaptation of The Hobbit by the BBC and then listen to the Mindseye version. I won't get into my comparison in depth just to say that in this case, though there are parts of the BBC production I liked, overall, on The Hobbit my son and I agreed that the Mindseye dramatization is the version we enjoy more than the BBC version. However, in for LOTR BBC win hands down. I'm not sure if this has been asked, and if it has, I'll check back the the thread, but Brian, did you listen to BBC version of The Hobbit that was done I believe in 1968 before beginning work on the LOTR adaptation? Just wondering if that played a part in helping you to determine what would and would not work in your own adaptation. Last thing on a funny note. We were listening to the BBC version of The Hobbit when Smaug is attacking Laketown and the Old Thrush appears. When the Old Thrush speaks, my 14 year old broke into laughter to the point of tears (while playing that scene over and over again). I asked him what was so funny and he said the Old Thrush had to be Alvin the Chipmunk who had grown wings. Sure enough, I listened to it and I have to admit he is kinda of right. The good thing though is the memory we created and shared on that portion of the adaptation. We'll probably always think of this day when that part comes on.
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"At any minute it is what we are and are doing, not what we plan to be and do that counts." JRR Tolkien in 6 October 1940 letter to Michael Tolkien |
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Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: London
Posts: 54
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Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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I suppose the thing that stands out for me in this episode is the portrayal of Faramir. I don't know whether the adaptors went through the same kind of trauma the movie makers did (apparently) over how to make him 'believable', but you have to admire their skill in doing so - as opposed to the 'struggles' the movie writers apparently went through
![]() And Peter Vaughn's Denethor (shades of Olivier's Richard III - or is that just me?). I love this portrayal - subtle, driven, power-hungry, snide, but we cannot help but feel his loss. He may, as Gandalf says, be using his grief as a cloak, but we never doubt that that grief is real. And, again, its nice to be spared the scenery chewing ..... Briefly to the Grey Company. Nice to have an Aragorn who is in command - he tellls the Dead what they're going to do, & they get right down to it. This is another example of how the limitations of the medium actually work in favour of the story - radio doesn't allow you to go in for Indiana Jones style action sequences, so you don't get them, & such sequences aren't in the spirit of Tolkien. And jumping back to the scene with Eowyn - they way her voice breaks slightly when she says "Neither have those others that go with thee. They go only because they would not be parted from thee - because they love thee." is perfect. Finally, Merry's failure to recognise that Dernhelm is a bird - very difficult to do, I suppose (bit like the voice of the resurrected Gandalf in Fangorn) - as soon as you hear the actor speaking the surprise is ruined - as readers we don't know Dernhelm is Eowyn till the confrontation with the Witch King on Pelenor Fields. Here, we know as soon as 'he' says "You wish to go whither the Lord of the Mark goes. I see it in your face." But that's a problem you'd have in any dramatisation, & at least this one attempts it, unlike the movie, where they simply don't bother. Appendix - a couple of things that occurred to me while listening, first, the Red Arrow. This is a traditional summons to war. I've mentioned a couple of examples of it in another thread: Quote:
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Oh, & while on the subject - 'Shield-maidens'. Saxo also has a good few examples: Alfhild Quote:
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Her second husband didn't fare so well Quote:
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#6 | |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Out West near a Big Salty Lake
Posts: 76
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Nice to hear
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I suspected that it may have shown you and your team what you did not want to do. Thanks for the response.
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"At any minute it is what we are and are doing, not what we plan to be and do that counts." JRR Tolkien in 6 October 1940 letter to Michael Tolkien |
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#7 |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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I liked parts of the BBC Hobbit - the interaction between Bilbo & the Narrator (or 'Talebearer') & some of the comments by various characters - like Gandalf's at the end on Bilbo's memoirs ("He'll never get a publisher!").
Of course, this is an adaptation that Tolkien could have heard, but I'm not sure that he did - or what his reaction was. Can't remember it being mentioned in the letters .... |
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#8 | |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: London
Posts: 54
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It is worth remembering that not everyone thinks so highly of our LOTR; for instance I recently stumbled on a review of the CD set by Amanda Craig in The Independent on Sunday, Dec 15, 2002: I have often wondered why so many intelligent people loathe Lord of the Rings (BBC Radio Collection pounds 50, boxed set) with such passion. Had my first introduction to it been through the radio, then I too would despise it. Brian Sibley has updated his classic radio version, first broadcast in 1981. He should be forced to wear prosthetic feet in atonement for the ponderous mess he's made of both story and prose. There's scarcely a single line here that belongs to Tolkien. All the humour, tension, poetry and life have been jettisoned for plonking dialogue that sounds like something left over from The Archers. Furthermore, one of the book's greatest pleasures, that of working out the mysterious past through the unfolding events of the present, has been bypassed by means of a new framing device, presumably to bring it in line with the film. The whole exercise is an embarrassment. Of course Ms Craig is perfectly entitled not to like it, but "There's scarcely a single line here that belongs to Tolkien..." does beg the question of whether she has actually ever read the book! ![]() |
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#9 |
Princess of Skwerlz
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
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I've concentrated on the episode of The Hobbit with the Dwarven music in these past weeks, so I did listen to the BBC Hobbit radio play. I was not enthused over the version which was played and sung there - it lacked enchantment as far as I was concerned. Interestingly, the German radio adaptation has excellent Dwarven music, following the description in the book more faithfully and sounding much more fascinating. AJ, you mention another adaptation - can you give me more information on that, please?
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' |
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#10 |
Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,460
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I have to say I doubt it .... I am amazed continually as I compare the two for this how little dialogue has been created.
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“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”
Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace |
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