Why destroy Laketown's bridge?

[Sauron the White]

Of course, had Smaug been able to land in the middle of Lake Town, destroying the bridge would've made no sense, as you pointed out. We'll have to assume he couldn't.

That assumption is convenient and contrary to how I read the story. Laketown brings in lots of goods by boat. They have dock areas which would be suitable for any such landing. You discount the idea of landing on roofs - something which I do not, even if it is just to help him slow down and hop off.

If Laketown is that crowded with small structures that there is no place to land, how would Smaug get around the town while on the ground anyways?

What purpose would there be for him to actually walk across that bridge?

Again, why destroy the bridge? To stop Smaug? How does that stop him? What it does do is cut off the quickest route of escape of the town residents and that does not seem very bright.

Why does a creature who can fly and attack from the air need with a land bridge? It simply makes no sense that I can see.

I agree that if a land based army was marching on your town, then you may want to cut yourself off from them in that fashion. But the attack was clearly by air and the people of Laketown knew that he was coming by air.

[skip spence]

^My point is simple really:

The inhabitants wouldn't have wasted their time destroying the bridge if they thought Smaug could land on Lake Town. And they were right: he could not, or at least did not.

[Sauron the White]

There is a far more obvious point.
Why would Smaug need to land at all?
He has no use for that bridge.
What is the point of destroying a bridge to the land if the dragon Smaug does not need to use that bridge?

And you saw they would not have wasted their time. Fact is they had precious little time according to the author. How fast can they destroy a bridge? Are we to believe that a pre industrial people can destroy a large bridge in the time it takes a dragon, already in sight, to fly to them?

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

That assumption is convenient and contrary to how I read the story. Laketown brings in lots of goods by boat. They have dock areas which would be suitable for any such landing.

These docks received floating barrels and surely some boats, but ships? It's a lake, not a sea port. Regardless, I'm not sure how comfortable Smaug would be landing on something of unproven girth so near the water.

You discount the idea of landing on roofs - something which I do not, even if it is just to help him slow down and hop off.

Could he land on a stick roof thatched with straw? I'm not sure of the structures of Laketown, nor know the weight of Smaug to perform an adequate experiment.

We do know that Smaug rarely ran great distances, and so don't have to discuss worm glycogen levels...

If Laketown is that crowded with small structures that there is no place to land, how would Smaug get around the town while on the ground anyways?

People were responding in fear, plus if he could get into the city on the ground, he may have had more opportunity to eat them than just cook them.

What purpose would there be for him to actually walk across that bridge?

Again, why destroy the bridge? To stop Smaug? How does that stop him? What it does do is cut off the quickest route of escape of the town residents and that does not seem very bright.

There may have been some gold that he might not have minded adding to his horde. Plus at what distance can dragon eyes bemuse people? What if he walked to the town end of the bridge, hypnotized some survivors and made them marry their siblings?

If you knew that that was a possibility, surely you'd throw down your bridge, just to be safe ("Better cooked that hooked!).

Why does a creature who can fly and attack from the air need with a land bridge? It simply makes no sense that I can see.

You're just not trying hard enough.

I agree that if a land based army was marching on your town, then you may want to cut yourself off from them in that fashion. But the attack was clearly by air and the people of Laketown knew that he was coming by air.

Again, they may have been just responding in haste to an attack of which they knew little, little of what form it would eventually take.

[Sauron the White]

I agree that they responded in haste. I also think this is one of the glaring errors in the writing of this part of the tale.

Lets approach this using a bit of common sense.

"Oh look a fire breathing dragon is attacking us from the air".

""Quick, destroy the only bridge that affords us a quick escape to the land"
Yup, now I see.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

I agree that they responded in haste. I also think this is one of the glaring errors in the writing of this part of the tale.

Of course, being a knighted defender of the faithful, I see no error here (or anywhere). And the trouble those dwarves have caused on this forum.

Lets approach this using a bit of common sense.

"Oh look a fire breathing dragon is attacking us from the air".

""Quick, destroy the only bridge that affords us a quick escape to the land"
Yup, now I see.

"Worms fly and walk. We cannot throw down the air, but can remove at least one avenue of attack."

"But what of escape?"

"Use your common sense, man! What good would it do for any number of us to run across the bridge to the land? Wouldn't that just be the biggest target for Smaug? Those that don't get cooked in the running surely will find their way into the belly of the worm when they make it to shore. Now make haste and scatter to the waters...it's the best chance you've got. Swim, or float as you may on some small support, but stay away from the larger boats as surely Smaug will smite them to ruin."

If that doesn't convince you, then I'll leave with the fact that the Master was not the best leader of men in times of trouble.

And regarding sense, the defenders use arrows against a foe that is immune to said attack (with one small exception), and yet they shot on, trying to do something. And as I see the bridge, not all of it is stationary - it floats a bit up and down with the ebb and flow of the water. For this middle section may be connected by strong rope, and to cut these with an axe would throw down the bridge quickly like so many gordian knots.

[davem]

It seemed a town of Men still throve there, built out on bridges far into the water as a protection against enemies of all sorts, and especially against the dragon of the Mountain.

There was once more a tremendous excitement and enthusiasm. But the grim-voiced fellow ran hotfoot to the Master. "The dragon is coming or I am a fool!"he cried. "Cut the bridges! To arms! To arms!"
Then warning trumpets were suddenly sounded, and echoed along the rocky shores. The cheering stopped and the joy was turned to dread. So it was that the dragon did not find them quite unprepared.
Before long, so great was his speed, they could see him as a spark of fire rushing towards them and growing ever huger and more bright, and not the most foolish doubted that the prophecies had gone rather wrong. Still they had a little time. Every vessel in the town was filled with water, every warrior was armed, every arrow and dart was ready, and the bridge to the land was thrown down and destroyed, before the roar of Smaug's terrible approach grew loud, and the lake rippled red as fire beneath the awful beating of his wings.
Amid shrieks and wailing and the shouts of men he came over them, swept towards the bridges and was foiled! The bridge was gone, and his enemies were on an island in deep water too deep and dark and cool for his liking. If he plunged into it, a vapour and a steam would arise enough to cover all the land with a mist for
days; but the lake was mightier than he, it would quench him before he could pass through.

Clearly Smaug was afraid of the lake & wished to avoid it as far as possible. The bridge would have given him access to the town certainly, but its entirely possible that he intended to burn the bridge & thereby burn the town, or even just besiege the place & starve the people.

That said, its not clear he actually wanted to destroy Esgaroth at all, merely teach the people a lesson:

"Barrel-rider!"he snorted. "Your feet came from the waterside and up die water you came without a doubt. I don't know your smell, but
if you are not one of those men of the Lake, you had their help. They shall see me and remember who is the real King under the Mountain!"
He rose in fire and went away south towards the Running River.

[Sauron the White]

How does destroying the bridge to the land help the people of Laketown agains a flying fire breathing dragon who does not need that bridge in the least?

Nobody has answered that key question.

from Alatar

Of course, being a knighted defender of the faithful, I see no error here (or anywhere).

AHHHH!!!!! So this is a question of blind faith in ones deity. That makes the above responses much clearer.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

How does destroying the bridge to the land help the people of Laketown agains a flying fire breathing dragon who does not need that bridge in the least?

Nobody has answered that key question.

Sorry, thought that I did.

Can I ask why you assume that Smaug could not make any use of the bridge?

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

How does destroying the bridge to the land help the people of Laketown agains a flying fire breathing dragon who does not need that bridge in the least?

Nobody has answered that key question.

Perhaps no one has answered that question because it is entirely irrelevant, since Smaug clearly *does* "need the bridge in the least", while the hypothetical dragon who doesn't fails to enter the story?

Now, if you meant to ask how destroying the bridge helps the people of Laketown against Smaug, that question has been answered several times. To sum up these answers (as I see them - forgive me if I misinterpreted someone's point):

1. Smaug could not land in Laketown without the bridge.
2. Because Smaug could not land, his vulnerable underbelly was exposed. He was, in fact, killed because of this.
3. Smaug feared the water, and the text itself says, in as many words, that he "was foiled", and describes him as originally making for the bridges in his attack.
4. The bridge did not offer a viable escape-route anyway, because the water itself offered more protection from a fire-breathing dragon than did the land.

[Sauron the White]

1. Smaug could not land in Laketown without the bridge.

There is not one iota of proof offered to support that claim. Not one. Just the opposite. We know that boats were loaded and unloaded so there had to have been dock space for that purpose. Smaug - if he wanted to land - could have landed there at the least.

2. Because Smaug could not land, his vulnerable underbelly was exposed. He was, in fact, killed because of this.

The deliberate destruction of the bridge to achieve this goal would only make sense if they first knew about the structural flaw on Smaugs belly. But they clearly did not know of it. Thus, the destruction of the bridge to aid in the downing of the dragon because of his exposed belly was not on or in anyones mind. So if this is your reason for the townspeople destroying the bridge, it clearly could not have been something they were aware of.

3. Smaug feared the water, and the text itself says, in as many words, that he "was foiled", and describes him as originally making for the bridges in his attack.

As long as Smuag had the ability to fly and retreat when tired it is irrelevent as to what he feared. I fear heights but as long as that airplane stays up its no big deal. Smaug never intended to go into the water or on the land for that matter. His attack was strictly aerial from start to finish.

What was he "foiled" in? In destroying the bridge himself? Some of his fun was spoiled? Or maybe Smaug intended to wipe out scores of fleeing townspeople easily as they bunched up closely running across that bridge to possible freedom from his destruction? Again, his fun and intentions were foiled and spoiled. Or in landing upon it and walking over... for what conceivable purpose?

Please quote the section of the text which states that Smaug feared the water. He did not go into it because of the vapor that would rise thus blinding him to the escaping people and it would quench him putting out his fires. But it would hardly harm him.

4. The bridge did not offer a viable escape-route anyway, because the water itself offered more protection from a fire-breathing dragon than did the land.

ANd what supports that belief? A boat on the water was subject to the same aerial attack that those on the ground, or on the bridge, or those who would have reached mainland would have been subject to. There is no difference.
In fact JRRT tells us that Smaug cared not if they went into the boats because the dragon greatly enjoyed the sport of hunting them.

"They could all get into the boats for all he cared. There he could have fine sport hunting them, or they could stop till they starved. "

So JRRT himself says that Smaug intended to hunt them while they were in the boats on the water.

And JRRT himself said from the time the dragon was spotted to the time he arrived was brief.

"Still they had little time".

Given the "little time" they had for Smaug to close that distance, just how did they manage to quickly get organized, grab the proper tools and supplies, divide into divisions of labor, and take down and destroy that bridge? Was this like the River Kwai where the bridge was wired with explosives? I think not. Just how did they destroy that bridge so quickly in the few moments it took Smaug to arrive and attack the town?

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by STW

The deliberate destruction of the bridge to achieve this goal would only make sense if they first knew about the structural flaw on Smaugs belly.

They would not need to know this for a fact - conventional wisdom to which even Bilbo had access would give them reason to suspect it:

"I have always understood," said Bilbo in a frightened squeak, "that dragons were softer underneath, especially in the region of the -- er -- chest; but doubtless one so fortified has thought of that"

Originally Posted by STW

As long as Smuag had the ability to fly and retreat when tired it is irrelevent as to what he feared.

Since repetition seems to be popular around here anyway, here goes:

Amid shrieks and wailing and the shouts of men he came over them, swept towards the bridges and was foiled!The bridge was gone, and his enemies were on an island in deep water too deep and dark and cool for his liking.

It seems perfectly clear from this quote that Smaug "was foiled" because the bridge was gone. Now, why this is the case may be up for debate, but the fact that it is so is given in the text. Smaug sweeps "towards the bridges" and is foiled, and the next sentence would seem logically to explain how this was so - and it says "the bridge was gone, and his enemies were... (etc.)" What is your explanation for how Smaug was foiled, if it wasn't by the destruction of the bridges?

Originally Posted by STW

Please quote the section of the text which states that Smaug feared the water. He did not go into it because of the vapor that would rise thus blinding him to the escaping people and it would quench him putting out his fires. But it would hardly harm him.

It seems, to me, excessive to quote what Davem already quoted a few posts back. Furthermore, if the water quenched his fire it would seriously impair his attack, which is a perfectly reasonable and obvious explanation for his fear and avoidance of it. This is beside the point at any rate - the point is that the text appears to link the destruction of the bridge with the risk, for Smaug, of ending up in the water or wet, something he wishes to avoid.
Furthermore, the text implies he had some plan involving the bridge, in which he was foiled by its destruction. This alone, even unexplained, shows the destruction of the bridge was of some use against Smaug. The question of the effect of water, because of its placement in the text, strongly suggests Smaug planned to use the bridge in his preferred attack, one which would not be as likely to bring him into contact with the water when the bridge was present. Since an attack by air doesn't carry such a risk in any event, it would appear he would have preferred not to be forced to attack from the air.

Originally Posted by STW

And what supports that belief? A boat on the water was subject to the same aerial attack that those on the ground, or on the bridge, or those who would have reached mainland would have been subject to. There is no difference.

I was referring to alatar's imagined scenario in his post #12, which, as you can see, doesn't involve boats. This is not particularly important, however, if it is understood that Smaug would have preferred to attack by land and would have been more dangerous in such an attack. It's true that the reasons behind this remain open to speculation, but Smaug's preferred attack is clear.

Originally Posted by SRW

Given the "little time" they had for Smaug to close that distance, just how did they manage to quickly get organized, grab the proper tools and supplies, divide into divisions of labor, and take down and destroy that bridge? Was this like the River Kwai where the bridge was wired with explosives? I think not. Just how did they destroy that bridge so quickly in the few moments it took Smaug to arrive and attack the town?

This has already been addressed several times - the bridge was designed to be quickly destroyed. If they had designed it accordingly, a few cuts should have done the trick, and if it was their emergency plan, they likely had the necessary tools readily availiable and people assigned to the task.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by alatar

Plus at what distance can dragon eyes bemuse people? What if he walked to the town end of the bridge, hypnotized some survivors and made them marry their siblings?

If you knew that that was a possibility, surely you'd throw down your bridge, just to be safe ("Better cooked that hooked!).

That made me laugh out loud. Good stuff alatar!

And StW, didn't they evacuate women children and such before destroying the bridge? This I how I remember it anyway.

I'm getting a bit fed up with this discussion (a smilie not available on this forum comes to mind: you know the 'beating one's head against a brick wall'-one) but let me reiterate and expand on one point I previously made: Lake Town was constructed as it was in order to offer the best possible protection against Smaug. When the defenders destroyed the bridge I must assume they did so because this was part of a pre-devised emergency plan. As they knew the bridge would have to be destroyed quickly I must also assume it was constructed in a manner that makes this possible.