WWXLV: The Fellowship of Saruman

[Meneltarmacil]

Oh, and I have plenty of time to spare now, unlike before when I had to hunt for food and scout for enemies, so I will be able to participate more in discussions of treachery.

This place...I can tell there are plenty of Orcs here, mountain-goblins most likely, the likes of which I have no love for. They have no sense of duty and honor like we Uruks do. Yet besides them, I can also smell... something else, something that seems familiar, a memory of Orcs past and fills me with apprehension. And twice now I have seen what appeared to be a cloud of fire and smoke moving around as if it were alive far below us. The sooner we leave here, the better, I say.

But enough about unknown dangers for now, and back to our more immediate problem.

We have here this quote from our good Tom Bombadil:

Wake up Radagast my friend! We have no time to this kind of thing anymore. Are you trying to force me to stand up against you after I have voted my dearest friend and your kin out? Try to be more constructive - or are you not interested? Because the traitors are safe at the moment so it's just fine whoever of the top-candidates right now get sent away and you don't feel any urgency to bring in your own thoughts about the vote?

He sounds kind of desperate for Radagast to start talking here. It has a sense of "I don't want to have a reason to turn against you" feel to it, or at least as I see it. And we already know what that nasty wizard turned out to be in the end. Could Tom be trying to keep a partner in crime from looking too suspicious?

Elrohir, I'm still waiting to learn why you voted for me near the beginning of our quest. Was it really just because I'm an Orc?

And Halbarad, I'm really not sure I can honestly keep letting you off the hook for this long.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Meneltarmacil

It has a sense of "I don't want to have a reason to turn against you" feel to it, or at least as I see it. And we already know what that nasty wizard turned out to be in the end.

"It has the feel in it that "I'm suspecting you heavily now and will soon vote for you if you don't give me reasons not to". Let us not confuse the good manners we all show to our earlier friends here and the exact situation we are and what we need to do."

Saying that he welcomed the call of the lady of the Galadhrim and climbed the remaining steps eagerly to meet her. While others sat back and went to their sacks for snacks Tom stayed up.

"Sorry for not singing this. There's time and place for everything.

My dear lady I must say that there's a shadow I see hovering above you and I need to speak this through openly. I do hope you can show I'm wrong for too noble companions have we lost this far already. And I will not restate things I have already said but only stick to thoughts I've gotten of late.

The traitor Radagast defended you in the very end when all was still more or less open - and he couldn't foresee his own death that would make that determined but non-grounded (and in the end non-needed) defence look so bad afterwards.

Also the heroic Eomér suspected the traitor Radagast strongly but also suspected you. If two of the traitors were caught in her suspicions (others being Halbarad and Elrohir) they might have thought he had some capabilities - a gift one could say - for seeing loyalties and that would explain why they called the Watcher to finish him off last Night.

And you speak of certainty and surety with the need of getting rid of me while you apologise how wrong you have been? I'm not sure or certain we should send you away but I'm beginning to think it might be our best option... in all insecurity we need to live with."

Tom looked at the fair lady in to the eyes and then sat back himself.

"And by the way I do still think that both Halbarad and the fair lady Galadriel are not both traitors but one of them might be indeed. For the way Halbarad seems to try at the same time both make friends with me while with his other hand trying to spread suspicion of me when there seems to be some general distrust looks very dubious indeed. And he shared the top-suspicion in the eyes of Eomer who the traitors might have taken as a "seer" of some kind...

And if you think you should suspect me then just remember Radagast's recital when he told me - by my open request - what people had said yesterDay while I had been away (post #132). It's a nice piece of rhetoric where he looks like quite innocently only referring to me what people had talked about that Day - but why did he make it aloud? Why did he actually wrote all those "analysis" to answer my request? So there was a reason why he wished to share those thoughts with us all. And what might that be? Just remember what he said and you see that it's kind of a list why people should vote me out of the company (he refers mainly to those speeches that suspected me and only referred to a few other kind of comments) while he could distract himself from that view and stay in friendly terms with me. Treacherous wizards are crafty indeed."

Tom took a piece of bread from his rucksack and started chewing.

"In principle we can make one more mistake but I'd rather send a traitor away toNight and so I would very much like to hear what you lady Galadriel and good Halbarad have to say for yourselves - or what suggestions you do have."

EDIT: X'd with Halbarad:
"Your indecisive suggestiviness looks really bad indeed dear ranger..."

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

For the way Halbarad seems to try at the same time both make friends with me while with his other hand trying to spread suspicion of me when there seems to be some general distrust looks very dubious indeed.

"I asked for your opinion in order to judge you, not to flatter you, Bombadil."

[Nogrod]

"Ahh... I'm too old to remember or pay heed to that kind of a thing... what was it? Flattery? No. I mean from the very beginning you have walked the line trying to look friendly and even trusting at times but everytime there have been suspicions raised against me you've been more than happy to re-cite them. I know I'm innocent and thence the traitors know it too. They'd love to see old Tom gone. That much I know even if I haven't a good track-record this time. But just look at it the other way around. On the first Day I might have brought you dear Halbarad even with master Gandalf, on the second Day I could have committed a suicide. So do you still say I should have acted differently?"

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Galadriel sat patiently and waited for Tom to finnish and when he did, her answer fell quickly.

"Yes Radagast indeed defended me, but is it no wonder? I spoke kindly of Radagast. . .as a traitor would you not grap the hand of an inoccent when it is streched out to you? Lets not forget that Radagast was not the only one who defended me Lobelia did as well, or rather she attacked the obscure grounds on which some accused me. My heart greatly desires that you are still true to the cause, but I your words have been too predictable.

Yes I have been wrong, but do not try to twist it around and use it as an argument against supporting my sugestion of sending you away!

I would never have voted for Radagast and I was willing to vote for Eomer, but did you not vote for both Lobelia and Mithrandir? Have you not been just as wrong as I?

The fact that you choose to use this in your argument worries me greatly."

EDIT: Cross Posted With Tom Bombadil and inserted a "me"

[Nogrod]

"Oh my lady, have I been wrong? Yes, in a way I have been. But unlike you who have voted nice and early so as not to be scrutinised I have stood there at the last hour. Sadly the chances given to me on these two Days have been dreadful (look what actually happened or just check what I told to Halbarad a moment ago if you're forgotten it).

Just tell me, anyone, what you would have done with that kind of choices I faced that would with your criteria not look suspicious? I mean aren't you just saying X is suspicious where anything someone does in a situation that he has not himself produced will be categorically deemed suspicious? And if that is the case shouldn't we turn our eyes to those who specifically try to avoid any situations where they might be looked like that eg. those voting safely early, spreading the vote so as not to be decisive etc.?

And do not be lazy my dear friends either... Go through what has been said and do not talk nonsense. Not doing that is the way the traitors win. If you care to go through what people have said you can disregard the ignorant or malicious misjudgements which so many people like to just pass forwards as it's easy to cling into something someone just said but remembering and thinking is hard work. Of course, if you're not that interested in following the Council's decision then so be it. I can't force you all to think the best for yourselves. And in the end it's a Ring that affects folks like you and the world of yours, not mine. So as you wish..."

Tom seemed frustrated but also a bit tired. He pulled his hat over his eyes to take a nap and talked or moved no more.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Now it was Galadriel's turn to feel frustrated and replied Tom just before he laid down to sleep.
"So it is a sign of innocence to save ones vote, to let other run the show instead of shaping it one self? Also lets not forget that when you wait you have the lovely chance of saving your own or a friends neck. I am not saying that I suspect people who save their votes, all I am doing is pointing out that these things can be interpritated in what way fits you best"

[Meneltarmacil]

Actually, to be honest, I've just gone over what Halbarad and Galadriel have done thus far, and have discovered that neither one seems extremely suspicious. Much as I distrust arrogant, self-proclaimed "wise" Elves and don't particularly care for the Dunedain either, neither of them has done anything that deserves exile.

Interestingly, Tom Bombadil called Halbarad suspicious for not contributing much to the discussion. This was after the Ranger had already made the point that Tom's singing could be used to confuse discussion. He's been making arguments, so how is he not contributing to the discussion?

Much as I'd like to move away from my old way of relentlessly attacking a single target, Tom just keeps coming back in my mind... not that getting rid of that annoying singing wouldn't be a good thing, as it gives me a nasty headache.

*angrily drops a large rock down a well*

*crashing sounds*

*RRRROOOOAAAARRRR*

Um, oops?

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

"Your indecisive suggestiviness looks really bad indeed dear ranger..."

"Indecisive? Say, rather, that I am prudent and not o'er-hasty in my accusations."