Werewolf XLIV: In the House of Tom Bombadil

[Gwathagor]

Hush.

[Gwathagor]

Wait, what did you call me?

[Gwathagor]

Well, I supposed I DID rather ask for it by making such a fuss on the admin thread.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Well, I supposed I DID rather ask for it by making such a fuss on the admin thread.

Yes, you did. But now that I've done it once I doubt I need to do it again...

But is it just the two of us here...?

edit: xed with Volo who made my question unreasonable

[Nogrod]

I think the little orphan speaks a lot of sense - unlike you my son...

I'm looking forwards to this as well as I tend to be the "always look at the bright side of life" -person. With no gifteds we really have to work this out ourselves and that sounds like a challenge. Managing that of course means we need to actually play, everyone of us. No seer will pick the under the radar creepies for us and no ranger will defend our assets either. I guess I need not continue this train of thought any further at this point...

I'd suggest getting rid of that wolfsie with her creepy name as our first step but I'm afraid that's not within our powers.

EDIT: x'd with the Ka

[Volo]

Ok, last check.

I'm going to vote the quietest person (if it isn't me).

[Boromir88]

What's with the excessive use of the smilies?

My head is going to explode ()...so after this moment:



I forbid the further use of smilies...

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I forbid the further use of smilies...

I love it when he's masterful...

sorry to be so late - couldn't get online last night and just have a few minutes now but will be able to say more later, so no hasty vote from me.

I agree there are advantages to no gifteds - firstly it discourages laziness since we can't rely on them and secondly it removes that doubt that so often occurs that odd behaviour means a wary gifted rather than a nervy wolf.

Off for another read. May get another post up .. may not...

[Macalaure]

At last, at last, no more second-guessing "X is acting strange, but wait, he might be gifted, better say nothing". No more laying low hoping that the seer will stay hidden and get it right in the end. It's all up to us now - a true battle of the wits. Sadly, this means that the innocent side, having me on their team, is severely handicapped.

I'm already getting a funny feeling about Nogrod - again. Why was he, who has to fear this more than most, the first to mention that the wolves might be after our assets?
Weak suspicion? Definitely. Only suspicion at all? Absolutely. Would I even have mentioned it if there was anything better to be found anywhere? Probably not.
Oh, the joys of posting on the first page of a werewolf thread.

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

First!

First to be lynched? Not a problem. I can manage.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

With no gifteds we really have to work this out ourselves and that sounds like a challenge. Managing that of course means we need to actually play, everyone of us. No seer will pick the under the radar creepies for us and no ranger will defend our assets either. I guess I need not continue this train of thought any further at this point...

I can but agree. Now, I this certainly must be the first time in history that I and Nogrod urge people to talk...

I do not wih to start the loud vs quiet debate once again, but the situation being what it is, if no one seems particularly suspicious to me toDay (like sometimes happens on Day1) I will vote someone who contributes little, given that there is such person. Now, of course I hope I need not make such vote, not only because it feels a bit wasted (being a shot in the dark), but also because if I end up doing that it means the Day has been rather unfruitful. I think making one more person join the Fenris pack toDay would not be a bad idea... (on the other hand, tell me when it isn't... )

edit: xed with Volo, Mac and Boro - yay!

[Boromir88]

I'm already getting a funny feeling about Nogrod - again.~Mac

Actually I'm feeling bad about Thinlo...again...confident, a swagger of arrogance, and an aura of chipperness. The attitude I would expect from a wolf in a village with no seer to spot them and no fear except the fear of the votes from ordinary, clueless, villagers.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Actually I'm feeling bad about Thinlo...again...confident, a swagger of arrogance, and an aura of chipperness. The attitude I would expect from a wolf in a village with no seer to spot them and no fear except the fear of the votes from ordinary, clueless, villagers.

Boro, the flaw in your logic is that I'm always dead nervous and unsure as a wolf. I never really enjoy it. So if I'm genuinely confident and enjoying myself, I'm innocent. Which of course doesn't mean I couldn't try to feign confidence if I was a wolf. But I'm bad at deception so if I'm only playing confident I'm probably ringing false or overdoing it...

And the term "swagger of arrogance" made me miss Anguirel, I wish he'd come back some day. Now, I know, that was totally unrelated but it just crossed my mind. Especially as it feels odd to be described to have "a swagger of arrogance". But I'm taking it as a compliment.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Mac

I'm already getting a funny feeling about Nogrod - again. Why was he, who has to fear this more than most, the first to mention that the wolves might be after our assets?

Wha..at? I don't follow your reasoning for why is that suspicious.

Originally Posted by Mac

Weak suspicion? Definitely. Only suspicion at all? Absolutely. Would I even have mentioned it if there was anything better to be found anywhere? Probably not.

Am I stupid or are you vague? What are you talking about here? Your own feelings about Nogrod's post or...?

Mac is definitely odd. I mean, I don't get his logic and I completely missed his first joke too.

Originally Posted by Mac

At last, at last, no more second-guessing "X is acting strange, but wait, he might be gifted, better say nothing". No more laying low hoping that the seer will stay hidden and get it right in the end. It's all up to us now - a true battle of the wits. Sadly, this means that the innocent side, having me on their team, is severely handicapped.

Not that any of this measn he's necessarily suspicious.

edit: xed with Boro

[Meneltarmacil]

I really do not like the look of Lommy here. She seems to be deliberately provoking Gwathagor and casting suspicion on him for no good reason. Could be nothing, but it still isn't helping anything.

I also predict that Boromir88 will do something in the future that appears innocent to everyone except me. I will become suspicious of him, and he'll start attacking me if he hasn't done so already. He'll be innocent during the whole thing, though.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Lommy

Wha..at? I don't follow your reasoning for why is that suspicious.

Not necessarily suspicious, but strange. Almost like waving a flag saying "I'm a good kill".

Originally Posted by Lommy

What are you talking about here?

About it being very early Day One and there being nearly nothing to go on yet.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Mac is definitely odd. I mean, I don't get his logic and I completely missed his first joke too.

Now slowly there. You bring out terms like "definitely odd" after only one short post of mine? I think you're rather quick to accuse there.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Boro, the flaw in your logic is that I'm always dead nervous and unsure as a wolf. I never really enjoy it. So if I'm genuinely confident and enjoying myself, I'm innocent. Which of course doesn't mean I couldn't try to feign confidence if I was a wolf. But I'm bad at deception so if I'm only playing confident I'm probably ringing false or overdoing it...

Would it be far-fetched to paraphrase this paragraph by "When I'm a wolf, I play like this. But now I play like that. Ergo: I'm not a wolf. Of course, I could feign it, but could these eyes lie. "?

[Nogrod]

Good to see things starting to happen albeit slowly.

I'll put my two cents into this as well.

Disregarding any timezone-issues and other RL hindrances I'd say that at this point both The Ka and Volo give me mildly bad vibes. Possibly Gwath as well but not so much.

Now why is that? This is a matter of principle in the first place.

Because they have played it the most safe not lending themselves or their ideas to the discussion (in hope of being forgotten but still taking part?).

Mac and Boro have already cast some suspcions around and Lommy has pointed out things in others' posting as well. That's what we need to do to both look at the reactions and to gather information about what others think (or what they want us to believe they think).

I know it's a bit early to start suspecting Ka or Volo for real about non-posting (there was little for them to go on at that time) but let me use them as examples here and as their behaviour this far meets the problem I'm talking about. My opinion sure is liable to change if they come back and start posting later toDay.

I had a wonderful but somewhat frustrating eperience the last time I played. I posted only once in the first part of Day1 and a few short ones in the end of the Day and what happened? Unlike oftentimes when I'm either lynched or getting the second highest vote I got almost no suspicion and sailed nicely through the Day.

What do we learn from here? If you don't speak you're rarely mentioned and when you're rarely mentioned you're not lynched.

So unless there are no real suspcions in the end of this Day I will be voting for someone not taking part openly - eg. saying who s/he thinks is suspicious and why. It is all the more important in this game as there are no gifteds. As I said already: no one will dream our silent murderers to us but they need to be lynched. And with no ranger we're in danger of losing our helpfuls sooner than later - so that's an urgency matter: the weight of possible submarines may get heavy soon. (Hopefully this answers your question as well Mac?)

EDIT: x'd with a host of posts...

[Volo]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I think the little orphan speaks a lot of sense - unlike you my son...

Could you please explain what you meant? I didn't see any sense in either, but neither anything nasty.

[Nogrod]

I need to do some work now but I will be back well before the deadline. But here's what I think right now.

My top suspect of those who have actually taken part in the discussion so far is Menel. He has tried to follow two suspcions nicely just when they have been on the air (first going with pushing Lommy then on Mac). Knowing his lynch-rate it would be important to him to steer the discussion anyway but to him, thence the eagerness to push people aready suspected. Also I don't see it as too farfetched to see his declaration of Boro's innocence as a way of trying to make Boro restrain his usual attack on him. Now why be like that unless a wolf?

My second suspicion is Mac. As Lommy pointed out the wolves feel surrounded and pressured if they are talked about and easily slip in there. As Lommy and Boro confessed about themselves I've myself also fallen victim to that paranoia. Mac's point about everyone discussing about him definitively looks that as it was not true. His suspicions on Lommy also fit the idea of a wolf trying to help the downfall of someone else.

But already here I seem to have a problem as I think it somewhat unlikely both of them are wolves. It's perfectly possible Menel tried to point at a fellowMac after he had been talked about a bit more. It might be seen as not too daring either but I'm not sure if I'm convinced about that kind of a plot between the two of them.

Then there is this trio Sally, Dury and Gwath. I think it highly unlikely they all three are wolves but two of them could well be. And that in turn would probably undo my first two suspects being wolves.

Also I'm not at all happy with the posting of McCaber, The Ka, Volo and Mith. But there is time for them to come more involved.

As I said earlier, espacially in a game with no gifteds I'd be inclined to vote the silent submarines in the beginning rather than leaving them to be a greater problem later.

Unless we had a better case.

Now I'm just wondering whether the suspicions I have do fit the description of being good enough...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Volo

Could you please explain what you meant? I didn't see any sense in either, but neither anything nasty.

Look at the first few posts... Lommy at least says a thing or two unlike Gwath; not anything extraordinary but reasonable compared to "First!" or "hush". And I didn't say either of them said anything nasty.

What makes me answer your question is the chance to ask you in turn why did you thought this so important thing as to bother asking in the first place? I mean I don't see any point in your question but could see a host of other questions to be raised.

[Volo]

So, computer stopped working, I burnt my fingernail and... nothing else actually.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

What makes me answer your question is the chance to ask you in turn why did you thought this so important thing as to bother asking in the first place? I mean I don't see any point in your question but could see a host of other questions to be raised.

You were around.
Do ask the other questions if you have them.

Originally Posted by Durelin

Okay, never played with Sally, but uh...is this *oh, loves, you know I'm not a wolf! I'd never lie to you!*...typical? So, Sally - if you were a wolf, would you come out and tell us and make sure you got lynched?

My opinion on Sally is that she's a totally crazy player and jokes around more than anybody else. Talking the way she does now isn't something she'd do only as a Wolf. Of course, it might be a way to cover up for not saying anything else and to look "normal".
You know, she's a bit like Fea actually. Thankfully not as radical, but they are similar in some ways.


I feel so lazy, clueless and hungry at the moment that I'll go and feed myself. After that I might want to try planning my school essay. Though I doubt I'll start actually doing homework, which is good news on the WW front.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Boro

This I find odd, he thinks Rikae looks rather innocent, yet her jump on Gwath is worrisome? Perhaps this is a defense against Gwath? Too early to say but it does look like a clever wolf tactic to make it look like you're defending someone "innocent" when you're really not you're inadvertantly defending someone else.

Oh well. I've been contradicting myself again. Let me explain myself. My first impression on Rikae was that she's possibly innocent. Later on, while I skimmed through the thread to check something (can't remember what gosh I love it when my brain is working...) I happened to reread that paragraph and found it somewhat disturbing so I added it to my post. My overall image of Rikae was still innocentish, so I didn't alter the earlier part. Did that explain anything?

Originally Posted by Durelin

Okay, never played with Sally, but uh...is this *oh, loves, you know I'm not a wolf! I'd never lie to you!*...typical?

Well... umm... yes. Quite frankly.

Originally Posted by Durelin

Nogrod being overly pleasnt could be a bad sign.

True, though one must take into account that he promised to be agreeable in this game. (On the other hand, he promised to be silent in the last game, so... ) He does seem weird, though.

Originally Posted by Noggins

As I said earlier, espacially in a game with no gifteds I'd be inclined to vote the silent submarines in the beginning rather than leaving them to be a greater problem later.

Unless we had a better case.

Now I'm just wondering whether the suspicions I have do fit the description of being good enough...

What do you mean by "a better case"? While I understand your point, I, for my part, will vote for the one I find most likely to be a wolf, whatever that means, regardless of whether he/she is silent or not. Simple as that.

Gah. The people, then.

Green zone (=innocent-looking):
Lommy
Nerwen
Sally

Yellowish green zone (=mostly innocent-looking):
Macalaure
Nogrod
Durelin
Rikae
Gwath

Yellow zone (=slightly suspicious):
Boro - has improved somewhat since my previous post.
McCaber
Menel

Red zone (=suspicious):
...
Gosh, my red zone looks empty. I'm too credulous, it seems.

No zone at all (=no opinion):
Volo
Mithalwen



My thoughts aren't being too clear. Nog's suspicion summary gave me a headache.

Off to have some tea, back before long.

EDIT: x'd with Volo

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

What do you mean by "a better case"? While I understand your point, I, for my part, will vote for the one I find most likely to be a wolf, whatever that means, regardless of whether he/she is silent or not. Simple as that.

I do have to disagree with you here. It always seems to be that those who are in the fray are also more easily seen as suspicious. Those who say things give food for thought to others unlike those who hide in the shadows. With the latter group it's always like tossing a coin. Therefore it's easier to come up with a case against one who talks a lot or tries to make a difference as there is lot to take hold on to. That in turn sadly turns out just too often with lynching an innocent who could have helped us in the later stages of the game and leaving us surrounded by enigmas we can't say anything about. Or how do you suspect one silent person over another?

So it's not simple as that. We need to take account of the relative risk. Like Mac toDay. I know he is a good player and he could really help us were he innocent. Thence I'm somewhat reluctant to vote for him just based on what I have on him now as it is only Day1 and there's generally quite little to go on with anyone. Therefore I need to ask myself whether I have a good case enough to vote for a vocal player on Day1 or whether I should try to find out a "sneaker"-wolf and go for her/him as in the beginning of the game it's easier to actually accomplish than later - and because the overall chances of getting a wolf onDay1 are smaller now than later so the relative risk for blunder is smaller as well.

EDIT: x'd with Volo and Rikae

[Volo]

Meh... I might be around tomorrow, but right now I'm going to do my homework, search for my batteries and listen to Ulver. I leave the work for my dear son, he's old enough to be responcible for his and his daddy's lives.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Volo

Meh... I might be around tomorrow, but right now I'm going to do my homework, search for my batteries and listen to Ulver. I leave the work for my dear son, he's old enough to be responcible for his and his daddy's lives.

Yeah, he'll be responsible for ENDING his daddy's life. Really, to leave such a child as Cabbie to his own devices is bordering on suicide. When you finish your studies, do find yourself a nice clinic; I'm sure they'll be able to help.

As for Dr. Gwathenstein, is this the truth? Are you volunteering yourself as the first lynching victim? *pats the little kamikaze on the shoulder and pinches his cheek* Alas, I can't take you up on your offer, dearie. I promised Cabbie he'd garner my vote this game. And being one of the eldest members of our village, I feel obligated to set an example and stay true to my word. *puts her glasses on and squints maliciously in Cabbie-Kabob's direction*

P.S. Lest I end up in the same boat as last time, yes I'm TEASING Cabbie, not actually going after him. Yet.
P.P.S. Agan, if you want to have me listed as Sally as opposed to my actual username, that's fine with me; it saves you some keystrokes. Or you can just call me Sally the Insufferable

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Menel

I really do not like the look of Lommy here. She seems to be deliberately provoking Gwathagor and casting suspicion on him for no good reason. Could be nothing, but it still isn't helping anything.

I concur with Little Miss Lommie. They're just two kids having some fun. Boys (and girls) will be boys (and girls) as the saying goes.

I interrupt my own regularly scheduled post so that you young ones may laugh at an old lady. I just noticed that the three "night kills" were listed as gifteds. Very nice touch, Mistress Agan, Currently Reigning Princess of Narrations. I quite like it. I feel dumb for not noticing it right away, but it's amusing nonetheless.

Back to business. Young Mac, why do you feel the need to so quickly label Little Lommie as a wolf? You and your brother Menel seem to take what she says and use it to cast her in an evil light. You should really be nicer to little girls, or your parents may make you sleep outside tonight.
On the other hand, I do think it's odd that Little Lommie explains herself like that. "When I'm innocent, I'm chill, but if I'm a wolf, I'm a nervous wreck." Sorry Lommie, but I think you have the capacity to fake levelheadedness beautifully.
On the other other hand....wait. I only have two. *yells* Could someone lend an old lady a hand? Thank you. Okay, on the other other hand (Rikae the Kind's to be exact; how....kind of her) I do the same thing a lot of times. I'm a terrible bluff, so if I'm lying it's pretty easy to catch me on it. Besides, I'm insufferably honest, which also means that if I am a wolf, I won't lie about it. Perhaps Little Lommie is the same way, which after playing a few times with her is a distinct possibility. Meh. I still want to kill Cabbie.

EDIT: X'd with everything since Mac's post on Lommie

[Gwathagor]

I'm not going to say anything yet, NOT because I'm trying to fly under the radar, but because I'm not sure what to make of the first page. There's so much speculative finger-pointing that goes on on the first day, and so little substance. At this point, everyone looks equally suspicious to me.

I promise I'll contribute in a few hours after I've eaten.

Meneltarmacil used my full name!

[Nogrod]

Menel worries me somewhat. If he is a wolf trying to look helpful and active what he has said would be reasonable indeed. After Boro made his first general suspcions on Lommy (about her overall style) Menel jumps in to second the suspcion using Lommy's banter with Gwath as a reason to suspect her (which clearly misses the mark). He also gets defensive after Lommy answers him and starts talking about wolves tendency to make silly suspicions... which I do find quite ad hoc.

Menel also could be interpreted to try to make Boro feel good by insisting that even if there'd be some rants between them (like there tends to be) Boro would be innocent. Now how come does he know that unless he's a wolf?

Originally Posted by Mac

It's all up to us now - a true battle of the wits. Sadly, this means that the innocent side, having me on their team, is severely handicapped.

Now this wasn't actually necessary now was it? I know innocents do weird things as well but somehow this is a bit odd. It's a joke yes but still after Menel's posting possibly the single most suspicious points made toDay this far. Which is not much...

A few ideas thrown into the air before I go to sleep...

Sally I just can't read.

Boro is hard to read as well but for different reasons.

Lommy feels innocent. I mean she's like that. Although it often happens that those you know from RL are the best to fool you...

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

A few ideas thrown into the air before I go to sleep...

Sally I just can't read.

That's okay love. No one ever can.

Alrighty young whippersnappers. I'm off to work. Make Granny Sally lots and lots of posties while I'm gone, okay chillens?

[Meneltarmacil]

To be honest, I believe people have their own styles of playing and tend to use them regardless of their roles. I honestly don't think we can find a wolf by playing style here, and I would doubt that Lommy actually plays differently based on her role.

*sigh* And now there's my playing style coming back to bite me. Why must I always focus on a single suspect to the exclusion of all else?

Oh, and Nogrod, my comment about Boro being innocent was made because he usually was innocent whenever I suspected him. I am not certain of his role by any means.

[THE Ka]

Originally Posted by Lommy

I do not wih to start the loud vs quiet debate once again

I don't care what the rest of you think, but if I have to suffer another one of those arguements I'll club over my own head...
Thankfully, as Menel has already pointed out it is safe to say the majority of us have played before or with one another so we don't have to have a coffee chat about playing styles all the time.

Originally Posted by No good Nogrod

but let me use them as examples here and as their behaviour this far meets the problem I'm talking about.

No hurt taken Nogrod, I just wanted to let everyone know that my posting will be sporatic at times due to the callings of RL. It's a healthy thing to suspect one another, and probably would be an honor to the game if we at least at fun with it. Which as a warning right now, I tend to take the game too lightly, so if I unintentually hurt someone, I am sorry.
I felt like I did that last time I played, so I'll try not to be so sporatic in my nature, but it will be very hard.

Originally Posted by Lommy Lighthearted

And innocents never toss out silly suspicions, right?

Heh heh... It is always fun to see how many Schrodinger's Wolf scenarios we can come up with.

Now for the part some of you will hate me for, but I'm going to take an observing stance for awhile, because that is what I do (even if I'm apparently... blind...), and return once I'm finished with schoolwork and taming the disaster zone of my house.
Ta ta for now.

~ Ka

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Meneltarmacil

To be honest, I believe people have their own styles of playing and tend to use them regardless of their roles. I honestly don't think we can find a wolf by playing style here, and I would doubt that Lommy actually plays differently based on her role.

Huh. This seems unlikely to me. I mean, obviously the player would like to maintain some kind of general consistency regardless of role, so that it's not immediately apparent when they are a wolf, BUT: 1) their goals are going to be different, and so the playing style would have to alter somewhat to suit those goals, and 2) not all players are going to be able to avoid acting different when they are a wolf, if only for lack of confidence.

Good to see Durelin up and about. Who hasn't posted yet? Mithalwen and A Little Green?

[Nerwen]

Menel–

Follows Boro's suspicion of Lommy, though he gives his own, very weak, grounds.

Later says this

Originally Posted by Meneltarmacil

To be honest, I believe people have their own styles of playing and tend to use them regardless of their roles. I honestly don't think we can find a wolf by playing style here, and I would doubt that Lommy actually plays differently based on her role.

Which looks to me like he's saying, "See? I didn't jump on Boro's suggestions at all!"

EDIT: accidentally put in an extra quote

[THE Ka]

Great, trapped. Well, at least this place has food, and if we run out we can always eat the mice from the cellar...

*mouse scurries across the floor to a scrap of bread*

Steady... Thankfully my hearing or sense for touch hasn't gone.

*smacks the mouse with walking cane and carefully roasts it on the fire*

There you go kiddies, now be sure to share.
You two, we have a crisis to deal with, you can flirt later. Oh and btw, Gwathy is a fitting name, or maybe Gwathyn, hmm...

I love being old, blind and grumpy. Thanks for the role Agan.

Well, I won't be around for another few hours, because of classes and such, but I should be back well before the deadline. Take care.

~ Ka, the old blind and grumpy mouse killing woman