Microphones in Middle-earth...the BBC Lord of the Rings

[Brian Sibley]

Originally Posted by Hookbill the Goomba

Yes, I've just found my long lost copy.

I have always had a great fondness for the dramatised versions... This doesn't mean there aren't bits that annoy me (the Eagle's song in Return of the King is one thing I always skip)...

Yes...... I know what you mean!! Counter-tenor eagles... Strange! Maybe Jackson was right not to do talking birds; still, if he does have an involvement with 'The Hobbit'...

[William Cloud Hicklin]

One reason the BBC version is so successful for me is its willingness to make use of Tolkien's original text to as great an extent as practicable. Tolkien's prose is a significant factor in the spell he weaves, and it irks me no end that the scripts for the film adaptation of The Lord of the Rings, of all books, should have been written by people with such manifestly tin ears for Language.

Hmmmm- BTW, do you think we should invite Sauron the White to this thread, just to show him there's a 'cinderblock' we Purists do like?

[Gwathagor]

But we're having a perfectly good party without him. Maybe we can show it to him after the fact?

[ArathornJax]

Well I am going to start listening to disc 1 tomorrow on my way to and from work. Then I'll post up what I have enjoyed, and why. I guess this thread has helped me to boost up my time table on listening to these again (though it doesn't take much prompting).

I have to agree with the singing eagle, that part I usually skip. I also enjoy listening to Treebeard on these as well as the Witch King. The part where the Nazgul are searching for the ring and news of the Shired, and come across Grima is one example of why I really like this series.

[Brian Sibley]

Originally Posted by ArathornJax

The part where the Nazgul are searching for the ring and news of the Shire, and come across Grima is one example of why I really like this series.

This is another scene drawn from Tolkien's 'Unfinished Tales'.

Generally, wherever possible, I tried to dramatise events that, in the book, were only reported by someone else.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Brian Sibley

Yes...... I know what you mean!! Counter-tenor eagles... Strange! Maybe Jackson was right not to do talking birds; still, if he does have an involvement with 'The Hobbit'...

No! I think that scene worked perfectly - inter-cutting the Eagle's song with Eowyn & Faramir, & then going straight into the Coronation.

Of course, the problem, again, is what, exactly, would an Eagle's voice sound like? Its fine to read the words on the page - you can accept a speaking/singing Eagle as easily as you accept a talking tree, but creating a convincing voice must be a real difficulty. I wonder if this isn't exactly the kind of thing Tolkien was thinking of when he said that the book was 'unsuitable for dramatic representation' - that there are things in the book which, given auditory or visual form, will not work - well, not for everybody.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I spent a lot of time last year listening to the minor works dramatizations, and my favourite was definitely the Farmer Giles story - I thought the voices were absolutely perfect, enjoyed the accents very much, and still like to hear it, even after so many times. My least favourite was the Smith version - for some reason, I wasn't enthused about Smith's monologues, nor of the voice that spoke the part. I think they made the whole story seem too mundane to me.

I have heard (twice) a version of the BBC LotR dramatization that I enjoyed greatly - the Cambridge Society did parts of it (they had done the whole thing, with permission) in Birmingham at "Tolkien 2005" and at Oxonmoot last year. Both times, I was greatly moved by the performance, which used sound effects from the radio recording; the counter-tenor sang the Eagle's song live, quite effectively to my mind. Not all of the Cambridge voices were as good as the original, but quality can take an adaptation without significant loss.

[Hookbill the Goomba]

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

My least favourite was the Smith version - for some reason, I wasn't enthused about Smith's monologues, nor of the voice that spoke the part. I think they made the whole story seem too mundane to me.

I think this is the problem faced by dramatising Tolkien's work. Because they are so full of prose and description it is hard to transfer that over to radio. I do get annoyed at any radio production where you have a character spending a long time describing the place they have walked into. It works better with two characters in dialogue talking about how they feel about the room, but with one character it is hard to find a way of doing it right. Farmer Giles was good (Brian 'Should be Thorin' Blessed was excellent), but Garm annoyed me at the beginning.

The episode in discussion at the moment is in a good place. You have a lot of character who can discuss the surroundings. Good Tolkien phrases can be interspursed between the appropriate characters. Sometimes when you have a good piece of description or whatever, it's tempting to give it all to one character, but I think it works better distributed. Sounds more natural.

[Brian Sibley]

Originally Posted by Hookbill the Goomba

The episode in discussion at the moment is in a good place. You have a lot of character who can discuss the surroundings. Good Tolkien phrases can be interspursed between the appropriate characters. Sometimes when you have a good piece of description or whatever, it's tempting to give it all to one character, but I think it works better distributed. Sounds more natural.

Well, it's never really natural - we hardly ever say things like "Look at that strange shaped hill over there with what looks like a ruined castle on top..." or whatever, but I know what you mean!

The biggest problem came later in the series when (as in the second half of the third volume, Tolkien recounts things rather than writing them in dialogue. Very difficult. Glad you liked 'Giles' (know what you mean about 'Smith' it really only works in that little book with Pauline Baynes' wonderful little pictures) and trust you enjoyed the performance of the actor playing the giant!!

[zxcvbn]

Brian Sibley, are you really THE Brian Sibley, the famous author and writer of the 1980's BBC Adaptation of LOTR as well as recent books on the making of the film trilogy?

[Brian Sibley]

Originally Posted by zxcvbn

Brian Sibley, are you really THE Brian Sibley, the famous author and writer of the 1980's BBC Adaptation of LOTR as well as recent books on the making of the film trilogy?

Ha-ha! Yes, of course I am! Except I am not THAT famous!

If you don't believe me, check out my web-site, www.briansibley.com and blog-spot, www.briansibleysblog.blogspot.com. That (and this) is me!

[davem]

Originally Posted by Brian Sibley

'Giles' (know what you mean about 'Smith' it really only works in that little book with Pauline Baynes' wonderful little pictures) and trust you enjoyed the performance of the actor playing the giant!!

I have to admit that Smith is the only one of the four adaptations I don't really get on with. Its not the script, & I like the actors (Paul Copley I've loved since I heard him reading reading from Pilgrim's Progress on tv many years ago, & I think James Grout was also involved as Nokes??), but somehow it just wasn't Smith for me. Of course Pauline Baynes illustrations are integral to the story & thankfully the latest edition, edited by Verlyn Flieger reinstates them. There is an edition of Tolkien's short stories, including Smith, Niggle, Giles, Roverandom & the Bombadil verses out later this year (with a new cover painting by Alan Lee apparently) which I'm hoping will also include the Baynes illustrations.

Just a quick one - the transcripts I'm linking to for the series - are they entirely legal? If not I can remove the links to them too. I'm now ever so slightly paranioid about this stuff....

[Brian Sibley]

Originally Posted by davem

I have to admit that Smith is the only one of the four adaptations I don't really get on with. Its not the script, & I like the actors (Paul Copley I've loved since I heard him reading reading from Pilgrim's Progress on tv many years ago, & I think James Grout was also involved as Nokes??), but somehow it just wasn't Smith for me. Of course Pauline Baynes illustrations are integral to the story & thankfully the latest edition, edited by Verlyn Flieger reinstates them. There is an edition of Tolkien's short stories, including Smith, Niggle, Giles, Roverandom & the Bombadil verses out later this year (with a new cover painting by Alan Lee apparently) which I'm hoping will also include the Baynes illustrations.

I hope so to, there has been an increasing attempt to 'hide' the Baynes illustrations (all the paperback covers are now by other artists) which is stupid because they ARE the picture for the books - just E H Shepard's illustrations to 'Winnie-the-Pooh' are THE only likenesses of Pooh & Co that matter...

Originally Posted by davem

Just a quick one - the transcripts I'm linking to for the series - are they entirely legal? If not I can remove the links to them too. I'm now ever so slightly paranioid about this stuff....

They're probably not strictly legal, but it's a rather different situation to the downloads of the actual programmes, since they are not competing with any published book. I don't think anyone is likely to be too bothered - unless someone started printing them out and selling them... So I really wouldn't worry!

[Brian Sibley]

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

I have heard (twice) a version of the BBC LotR dramatization that I enjoyed greatly - the Cambridge Society did parts of it (they had done the whole thing, with permission) in Birmingham at "Tolkien 2005" and at Oxonmoot last year. Both times, I was greatly moved by the performance, which used sound effects from the radio recording; the counter-tenor sang the Eagle's song live, quite effectively to my mind. Not all of the Cambridge voices were as good as the original, but quality can take an adaptation without significant loss.

They did it first, I think, in Cambridge and I attended the event for part of the day and played Elrond in several scenes. I totally agree that the experience was very moving - it was like a tale-telling around the fire in a long hall... I really wish I could have attended and taken part in one of the later readings...

I had hoped that the BBC and the Tolkien Estate might one day find a way of publishing the scripts - suitably corrected, of course! There was interest at the BBC when the films came out, but none now...

Meanwhile they are, of course, on the net as transcripts - though I haven't checked their accuracy. Curiously, I know that the Cambridge folk did their OWN transcription which was, as far as I know, pretty accurate. Maybe I should try and persuade the BBC to put up a full, accurate transcription, scanned from the scripts...

Trouble is, they wouldn't be prepared to pay anyone involved for the use of the material either! Despite the fact that it was for many years their best-selling audio book... It's hard to even get them concerned about the fact that the series is being uploaded in various forms all over the www... One such site currently reports 5000 downloads, which for working writers and actors represents a lot of potentially lost income.

Of course, not everyone who downloads would otherwise have BOUGHT the work, but I've read many postings on forums saying thank you for saving them the cost of purchasing it... Which is a bit hard to swallow...

You see, I'd love to OWN a Van Gogh but can't AFFORD one - so would that justify my stealing one? Probably not...

End of rant!