The Scourge of The Dark Side...Tolkien and Modernism

[tumhalad2]

Ibrin that was an absolutely fascinating and enlightening response-thank you and I greatly enjoyed reading it.

As to medernism and its virtues, yes, I would agree, having taken some time to think about it, that it is fundementally reactive and flawed. Postmodernists *chuckle*, well, lets not get into that...

Anyhow yes, Tolkien's world does admit to sadness and loss as a reality, and denying this is indeed I think futile on the part of the Star Wars forumers and their utopic vision...

[Nerwen]

As a general reply to the last few posts, I should say that The Lord of the Rings in my opinion does explore quite a number of themes. It is however, not a primarily didactic work (or what I sometimes call a "How To Vote Story"). Neither is Star Wars. That– in a way– is the joke.

Ibrin, the whole thing began, as far as I can work out, because some posters on another forum declared their contempt for both Star Wars AND The Lord of the Rings, on the grounds that neither was sufficiently progressive. The response from the crew at stardestroyer.net was to a.) distance themselves from LotR and b.) think up some hair-splitting reasons why the criticisms of it were valid but the ones of SW weren't.

As I said, it's rather pathetic.

[tumhalad2]

or that LOTR is MORE conservative than Star Wars and thus deserving to be ruthlessly attacked....lol

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Ibrin, the whole thing began, as far as I can work out, because some posters on another forum declared their contempt for both Star Wars AND The Lord of the Rings, on the grounds that neither was sufficiently progressive. The response from the crew at stardestroyer.net was to a.) distance themselves from LotR and b.) think up some hair-splitting reasons why the criticisms of it were valid but the ones of SW weren't.

As I said, it's rather pathetic.

No kidding. With that history, I see very clearly what probably happened: rather than just defend their own turf, someone in the SW forum decided to turn LotR into a sort of common enemy. "We aren't bad, but these other guys are." It IS quite pathetic. It's rather like something I was told by many authors who were both friends and people whose opinions I respect: If in writing, the only way you can make your hero look good is by making everyone else look like witless fools and buffoons, your hero isn't a real hero at all. An argument intended to support your position that relies on bashing someone else is not a well-constructed argument. When dealing with the kind of contempt you describe, you're best to either ignore it utterly, or just defend your own part of it and leave others to their own defense.

[tumhalad2]

Thats it Ibrin. Nonetheless, are there any valid criticisms these people bring up? They defend the Force in Star Wars by saying that Sauron is a 'two dimensional Satan figure'-while another forumer denounced LOTR as being inherently racist, not at Tolkien's behest, but in terms of the fundemental nature of the book...should we as Tolkien fans accept some of this? Or is it too modernist trash?

[Gwathagor]

If one only read The Lord of the Rings, I can understand how one would get the impression that Middle-earth is inherently racist. On one level, I think that is mistaken. It's obvious in Unfinished Tales that Tolkien thinks the Druedain are pretty cool, and they are about as far removed from the Numenorean race as one can get. On the other hand, aren't all mythologies sort of "racist", because they revolve around one particular culture/race? Yet no one ever criticizes Greek or Norse or Hopi mythology of marginalizing other civilizations.

[tumhalad2]

I suppose, modernists being modern, they would say that the world no longer has need for, nor room for, stories of that sort, exactly because they are exclusive, or 'racist'. I too think that if one takes Tolkien's legendarium in its entirety, there is in fact a great deal of compassion directed at those who have been misplaced and unjustly done by. From the Children of Hurin (my favourite of Tolkien's works) the Petty-Dwarves come to mind.

[Gwathagor]

Yes! "Compassion" is exactly right. Good point.