Why hold'claim Osgiliath?

[Araréiel]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

I think, in the film, attempting to retake Osgiliath is important because such a ludicrous suicide mission is the most convenient way for Insane Mean Daddy to kill off Misunderstood Younger Son.

EXACTY how it appears in the film.

Time to re-read the trilogy, methinks.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

In the book it's much more straightforward: Sauron had to take the crossings, and Gondor had to defend them. Once lost, retaking themwas of course not an issue: the Men of MT fell back on the Causeway Forts- bastions covering the Road where it crossed the marshy land and passed through the gate in the Rammas- a barbican, really. It was this defense that Faramir took command of (pretty logically, given that he was now Captain-General), and in the retreat from the Causeway Forts after they fell that he was wounded. Leading that defense was not conceived as either a murder or a suicide, and quite-sane Denethor very correctly covered the retreat with a well-timed cavalry sortie. He certainly didn't throw away 200 good heavy cav on a pointless charge against prepared defenses!

Tolkien, unlike PJ, was a soldier.

[Quempel]

Osgiliath was strategically needed. In both WW's one of the main goals was to destroy bridges so the supplies and access would be cut off.

My main contention is that Denethor should have destroyed the access across the river before Saurons troops arrived. Faramir could have easily defended from that point. But there are so many other issues in both the book and the movie that don't make sense militarily that I don't really question them anymore.

I really hated what was done to Denethor and his two sons in the movies. I never did really like Denethor in either, but the movies made him out to be worse.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Quempel, the Osgiliath bridge had been destroyed (by Boromir) the previous June. In March Sauron forced an amphibious crossing.

[Quempel]

That's why I said access across the river, not bridge. There are certain things that can be done to keep boats from reaching the shore. There are certain things that can be done to shore up the shore. There are certain things that can make it impossible to cross a river except at a very narrow crossing, thus making it 'easy pickins' for the defenders. Again there are tons of military mistakes in both the books and the movies. However, having the giant eagles of Manwe fly the ring into Mt. Doom doesn't make for a good story. One of my biggest is the whole ring issue, why couldn't Sauron just as easily forge a new ring to rule over the one ring? Plus the wizards had knowledge of black-powder, I am pretty sure black-powder bombs or guns might just make it easier to win the war. But Tolkien hated that technology so it wasn't used, he preferred the killing in LoTR to be done with knives, not guns.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Qempel, I think we can assume that Gondor tried to beef up the landing-zone defenses as best she could (although Denethor wasted manpower and time on the Rammas)- and apparently they held for two days; but with an enemy of overwhelming numerical superiority (as well as the attested morale-effect of the Black Captain), not to mention the fatigue of unrelieved troops in continuous combat- they just weren't capable of holding. There is no such thing as an impregnable position given sufficient men (and sufficient disregard for casualties). The idea that a few hundred Men of Gondor could prevent indefinitely the Morgul-Host from effecting a crossing is a non-starter.

Rommel did his level best to make Normandy 'impregnable,' remember?

why couldn't Sauron just as easily forge a new ring to rule over the one ring?

Because it wasn't 'easy' the first time, in fact Sauron invested 'the better part' (i.e. most) of his native power in the One. He hadn't sufficient left to make an even mightier one. Besides, in Tolkienverse some works, like the Trees and the Silmarils, can't be repeated.

Plus the wizards had knowledge of black-powder, I am pretty sure black-powder bombs or guns might just make it easier to win the war.

"The wizards?" Say rather Saruman. If indeed the 'fire of Orthanc' at Helm's Deep in fact was gunpowder, which we don't know.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Because it wasn't 'easy' the first time, in fact Sauron invested 'the better part' (i.e. most) of his native power in the One.

This being why destroying the Ring did for him.