Or no Hobbits at all...

[davem]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

AHHHH!!!!! So thats is then. The Estate does not want two more movies taking away all the attention that they themselves want for the books. The attention they tried to grab by agreeing to publish the CHILDREN OF HURIN as a "new book" in an obvious fraud.

If the Estate deserves money, fine.... they are entitled to it and I hope they get it. If this is just some legal ruse to abort rights that JRRT already sold and now the Estate regrets, forget them.

Carefully avoiding the side argument....as I pointed out, they are not (CAN NOT) seeking to prevent a movie of TH or a possible sequel/sequels being made. They are attempting to prevent New Line Cinema making any further Tolkien movies - from the sound of it on the grounds that they haven't received the profits they are due from the LotR movies & probably wouldn't receive any profits from further movies - ie that New Line are abusing their rights & so should have those rights taken away from them.

None of this would prevent a Hobbit movie being made by someone else. I was just being a bit provocative with the thread title

EDIT Latest on the One Ring site seems to imply that New Line may be slapped down hard by Time Warner & reduced to making cheap 'n' nasty junk while leaving the blockbusters to Warner Brothers.

[Lalwendë]

Actually, according to today's news reports, they ARE seeking to halt The Hobbit from being made by New Line!

From The Grauniad:

In the complaint, the plaintiffs accuse the studio of "unabashed and insatiable greed" and of engaging in the "infamous practice of creative 'Hollywood accounting'."

Perhaps more worrying for Tolkien fans looking forward to seeing the planned Lord of the Rings prequel, The Hobbit, hit the big screen, the suit also calls for "a declaration from the Court that the plaintiffs have a right to terminate any further rights New Line may have to the Tolkien works under the agreements, including The Hobbit, due to the serious and material nature of the breach of the agreements".

http://film.guardian.co.uk/news/stor...255880,00.html

I have highlighted the most damning statement made!

EDIT:

Story from The Times: http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle3354936.ece

Seems several family members are involved, plus 'two of Tolkien's children' - probably including Christopher and Priscilla.

[Mithalwen]

One thing I had been wondering generally was how long a "shelf life" the film rights had. Given that copyright on books and songs expire after a certain period of time it would seem unlikely that film rights could be held in perpetuity. Is there a general rule or would it be contract specific?

[Lalwendë]

It looks like there was a clause in the original sale which entitled the estate to a share of profits.

New Line don't sound like they're run by very clever people, do they? They've also had legal cases brought by Jackson, and by the actors, and they sold the foreign rights to The Golden Compass, which could have earned them a lot of money, especially now it's winning awards!

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

What on earth is wrong with New Line? Lal must be right--the heads of the company must not be particularly bright. You'd think that after the actors sued, and Peter Jackson sued, they'd go through their records and make sure that everyone else had been paid their due so that they didn't get dragged back into court for the very same problem a third time. What's next? Are the gaffers and cinematographers, sound and CGI teams going to come out of the woodwork with a complaint that their contracts aren't being followed, either? Bad form, New Line.

...They must think they're above the law.

TH could still be made, just not by New Line, assuming this goes through. I'm not expecting it by 2010 anymore, that's for certain. *sigh*

[Quempel]

Ok I must be just not getting it. How can the Tolkien Estate stop the movie? They don't have the rights to the movie at all, but only rights to the profits from the movie...is this correct in my assumption?

And not that I believe NL wouldn't rip off the Estate, since they have a track record of ripping off everyone else. I am just wondering what legal leg they can stand on to claim stoppage of the The Hobbit, because it seems to me they don't have any rights to if the movie gets made, but only have rights to the profit of the movie, if and when it gets made.

My other question is this, once Christopher dies, who will be the 'Estate' that will stop the selling of the movie rights to the Sil? Because it seems that once he dies that the other children might not be such 'sticks in the mud' as it were.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Quempel:

The doctrine invoked by the Estate (to the extent I can judge by the press reports) is that when a party to a contract breaches it materially, outrageously and in bad faith, the aggrieved party can ask the court to nullify the contract.

Let's look at it this way: suppose Farmer Jones contracts to sell this year's and next year's crop to a wholesaler. After Year 1 the wholesaler doesn't pay a penny- it's hardly unreasonable then for Farmer Jones not to give them Year 2's crop for nothing as well.

Mind you, this applies only to New Line- Saul Zaentz would still be free to license TH to any other studio. MGM/UA might be interested because they already own the distribution rights. And this other studio would be free to hire Peter Jackson if desired.


The Board of the Tolkien Estate* comprises Christopher, his wife Baillie, and JRRT's grandson Michael George Tolkien. All three appear to have the same attitude towards visual (as opposed to audio) adaptations. There's no telling in advance who might take up Christopher's vote on the board, but the most likely candidate is son Adam, whose position is also very book-centric and anti-exploitation.

*That's not strictly accurate- it's actually the board of The Tolkien Company Ltd, whereas the Estate is run by its executors, CRT and Cathleen Blackburn; and the Tolkien Trust has its own Board which includes JRRT's daughter Priscilla.