Hurin and despair - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Findegil · 05-22-2003, 10:50 AM

For what purpose other than getting information of Turgons city would Morgoth give the order to take Húrin alive? It was a very expensive order. Húrin made a great last stand and killed a lot of enemy's. Of course Morgoth had Orcs and Trolls in great numbers, but the relative slow success in the war after the Nirneath Arnoediad showed that he had suffer great looses there.

I do not believe that Morgoth had any fear of military actions of Turgon. But that doesn't mean he had no fear at all. He had heard the music of the Ainur to its end. So he did know that he was doomed in the end even when he denied it. And he did know very well that his first defeat (as he clearly would see the downfall of Utumno) had been brought about by Manwe, the chief instrument of Ilúvatars second theme. And the children of Ilúvatar entered with the third theme.
So taking the view that what the Elves told us in their books is not without a bit of truth lying behind it, we could assume that since they had been in contact with Morgoth in Valinor it is not completely unthinkable that the Elves had marked a special tension between Morgoth and Turgon.
Thinking about the hole story in the end and how desperately Morgoth tried to bring Turgon down (he sent an army that was sufficient for a big war only to attack a single city - one Dragon only was send against Nargothrond and no Balrog, but a host of dragons and at least a couple of Balrogs against Gondolin!) we can very well assume that interest in the knowledge of Húrin about Gondolin was the reason for taking him alive, and the reason to torture him.
What we know about the strive of Morgoth with Húrin and Húrins further stay in Angband, we do not only know through Húrin himself. Slaves as Gwindor did even know about it. And did report it when they escaped.

The account is clearly tainted by its trading through the elves and the composer (a man of the House of Hador how managed to fly to the mouth of Sirion). But if you do not deny it at all as being only a fair tale (which it actually is [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]), you most admit that some bit of truth may lie behind any motive shown in it.

Respectfully
Findegil

05-22-2003, 10:50 AM	#32
Findegil King's Writer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,721	For what purpose other than getting information of Turgons city would Morgoth give the order to take Húrin alive? It was a very expensive order. Húrin made a great last stand and killed a lot of enemy's. Of course Morgoth had Orcs and Trolls in great numbers, but the relative slow success in the war after the Nirneath Arnoediad showed that he had suffer great looses there. I do not believe that Morgoth had any fear of military actions of Turgon. But that doesn't mean he had no fear at all. He had heard the music of the Ainur to its end. So he did know that he was doomed in the end even when he denied it. And he did know very well that his first defeat (as he clearly would see the downfall of Utumno) had been brought about by Manwe, the chief instrument of Ilúvatars second theme. And the children of Ilúvatar entered with the third theme. So taking the view that what the Elves told us in their books is not without a bit of truth lying behind it, we could assume that since they had been in contact with Morgoth in Valinor it is not completely unthinkable that the Elves had marked a special tension between Morgoth and Turgon. Thinking about the hole story in the end and how desperately Morgoth tried to bring Turgon down (he sent an army that was sufficient for a big war only to attack a single city - one Dragon only was send against Nargothrond and no Balrog, but a host of dragons and at least a couple of Balrogs against Gondolin!) we can very well assume that interest in the knowledge of Húrin about Gondolin was the reason for taking him alive, and the reason to torture him. What we know about the strive of Morgoth with Húrin and Húrins further stay in Angband, we do not only know through Húrin himself. Slaves as Gwindor did even know about it. And did report it when they escaped. The account is clearly tainted by its trading through the elves and the composer (a man of the House of Hador how managed to fly to the mouth of Sirion). But if you do not deny it at all as being only a fair tale (which it actually is [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]), you most admit that some bit of truth may lie behind any motive shown in it. Respectfully Findegil