Lack of respect displayed by Gimli

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

With all this on the plate of Aragorn, Gandalf and group, is it logical to stand on manners and ceremony at this most crucial of times? During World War II lots of major buildings all over Europe were turned into war rooms where meetings were held and I would bet that the previous occupants would be shocked if they could see soldiers putting their feet up on that highly polished mahogany table or putting a cigar out on the family china. But it happened and it was not because anybody wanted to urinate upon or disrespect on the family or national crest or flag.

It was wartime plain and simple. That kind of urgency has a brutal and immediate way of cutting through all the social nicities of normal life and rendering them all pretty meaningless.

I am not British but I read and have seen newsreels where during the bombing of Britain during WWII, the Queen (who I guess is now the Queen Mother) would visit bombsites the next day, sometimes even the same day to meet with people and keep spirits up by purchasing some little item or food product in the nieghborhood to show the people that normal life should go on. I was not there. But I have to imagine that the conduct of those neighborhood people in meeting the Queen in a bombed out store may have been just a tad bit different than a formal presentation to the Queen at a formal event at the palace. At least that is what the old newsreels showed.

Same here with Gimli on the throne.
This so called lack of respect appears to be making a mountain out of a molehill.

Let me reassure you that even in the depths of WWII the Great British sense of class and status was upheld. One of the most interesting things to see in the Cabinet War Rooms is the suite of offices deep in the cellars of Whitehall where the civil servants worked. Bear in mind that this place was intended to be the last refuge of Churchill, his cabinet and heads of the services, and even though the worst didn't come to pass, it was still at the centre of some hair-raising incidents.

Yet even through all this, notions of status were maintained. Civil servants were allocated desks, chairs and even sizes of the bits of carpet (bits because they only got a square of it) that would sit under their feet according to their rank.

I shouldn't imagine things were very much different in the dens of Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin and Roosevelt.

So the argument of "It was wartime!" doesn't hold up in regard to the higher echelons of society. Given that, even in the fantasy world of Gondor I think it would have been grossly disrespectful for someone 'common' to plonk his bum on the Steward's Chair.

However, and perhaps sadly, it's consistent with the role and character of Gimli as written by Jackson's team, as it's just one in a line of things that would be disrespectful to most, including standing on an ancestral tomb and belching at King Theoden. Maybe this is just how Jackson's team views Dwarves? As a rough 'n' ready race of people not interested in social niceties, and one which can provide a seam of cruel teenage humour, referring to the dwarf tossing and bearded lady jokes?

As for what the Steward's Chair may signify I'm reminded of the Speaker's Chair in the House of Commons - and interestingly, the Speaker historically fulfilled the role of the Crown's representative in Parliament, a role which only diminished with the English Civil War and the rise of (or more accurately, slow waking of) democracy. Though there are a number of roles from the Order of Precedence http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_o...land_and_Wales that you could possibly equate with the Stewardship.

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Yet even through all this, notions of status were maintained. Civil servants were allocated desks, chairs and even sizes of the bits of carpet (bits because they only got a square of it) that would sit under their feet according to their rank.

I shouldn't imagine things were very much different in the dens of Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin and Roosevelt.

So the argument of "It was wartime!" doesn't hold up in regard to the higher echelons of society. Given that, even in the fantasy world of Gondor I think it would have been grossly disrespectful for someone 'common' to plonk his bum on the Steward's Chair.

Thank you for giving us that insight of England during wartime! That is exactly right - "it was wartime" is not a valid reason for the disrespect shown by PJ's Gimli.