Hurin and despair - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Morwen Tindomerel · 05-20-2003, 09:04 AM

"So, if at least an element of Turin's actions can be governed by the curse, going against the general rule that Men have free will, then why should they not all not be so governed?"

External factors influence *all* human choices. If it weren't for said factors there would *be* no choices. It is the power to make choices that is the essence of free will. Turin's *actions* were *never* governed by the curse. His actions were without exception self chosen.

Turin *chose* to take the actions that led to Saeros' death. He *could* have controlled his (justified) anger and brought the matter before Thingol instead of deciding to impose a punishment of his own devising leading inadvertantly to Saeros' death. Whereupon rather than answering for his deeds to Thingol, he decides to flee as a self declared outlaw. And none of these bad choices can have been influenced by Morgoth since his power cannot reach into Doriath.

This however establishes that Turin is rash, thoughtless, and impulsive. After leaving the protection of the Girdle the 'shadow' described by Manthor falls on him encouraging his natural faults and increasing the chances for further bad decisions but *not* causing them. Turin continues to be the master of his own actions. He could have minimized the effect of the curse, even negated it altogether by mastering his faults. Unfortunately he never does.

05-20-2003, 09:04 AM	#15
Morwen Tindomerel Wight Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Minas Anor or Annuminas the Golden Posts: 187	"So, if at least an element of Turin's actions can be governed by the curse, going against the general rule that Men have free will, then why should they not all not be so governed?" External factors influence all human choices. If it weren't for said factors there would be no choices. It is the power to make choices that is the essence of free will. Turin's actions were never governed by the curse. His actions were without exception self chosen. Turin chose to take the actions that led to Saeros' death. He could have controlled his (justified) anger and brought the matter before Thingol instead of deciding to impose a punishment of his own devising leading inadvertantly to Saeros' death. Whereupon rather than answering for his deeds to Thingol, he decides to flee as a self declared outlaw. And none of these bad choices can have been influenced by Morgoth since his power cannot reach into Doriath. This however establishes that Turin is rash, thoughtless, and impulsive. After leaving the protection of the Girdle the 'shadow' described by Manthor falls on him encouraging his natural faults and increasing the chances for further bad decisions but not causing them. Turin continues to be the master of his own actions. He could have minimized the effect of the curse, even negated it altogether by mastering his faults. Unfortunately he never does.