Werewolf XLII: The meaning of life forever

[Nogrod]

Okay Lommy chose then to portray herself as a Defender (seer) then. How nice. And also she had the good luck of hitting a non-ordo. Even better. How come the most important things? Although you forgot the fact that we can't trust anyone here with their word and that makes the defender in the worst scenario quite a redundant person here. The only one who can prove his role is the Guardian as he can do things others can't. I can show it to you the next Night. If you follow Lommy's advice there's nothing that could tell you whether what she told you was true or not. Anyone can pose as whatever they wish and we still won't know about even if they die.

Originally Posted by Thinwolf

And I'd rather not take this mirror style back again, but if you're talking of being desperate, just look at what kind of points you're throwing at me: "she phrased this badly, therefore she must be a wolf!"

I'm just gearing up... It's funny you tend to concentrate all the minor sidenotes and jokes but not the actual suspicions. That's understandable but also something one can see quite easily through...

Originally Posted by Lupine-Lommy

Or, from another point of view: even if I was a wolf and Nogrod was a guardian, my death wouldn't help you at all. You wouldn't still know if you can trust Nogrod or not. Thereby it's utter folly to leave me to be killed by Nogrod and his fellows: not only because you'll lose a Defender, but also because my death won't tell you anything.

No and no. Two kills on Night2 will prove everything. And as I said before: if the Protector manages a save which is even better I'm ready to be lynched toMorrow as we have gotten out of the worst situation and I might take one of the wolves with me when I go.

That post of yours made me immediately suspect you Kath. That ill-reasoned suggestion sounds like the talk of a wolf or a cobbler.

A cobbler? What?

If we lynch Nogrod and he is a wolf, someone of us (not necessarily anyone that can be trusted though) will know his role and can tell it.

And who do you think could be trusted with a claim? And seriously there would be another proof then: your death with my hammer.

If we lynch Nogrod and he is a guardian like he claims, he will take me with him and that action itself will prove his innocence and my guilt. We will get rid of a wolf.

Correct. But we lose the chance of my known innocence to come forwards...

I can see though where she's coming from in these two. The wolves have now a nice advantage in numbers so they could afford "sacrifying" Lommy (and she would do it) to prevent me from making more damage to them later.

Originally Posted by Lommy on lynching me

Even for you who cannot know the facts, lynching him toDay is the surest option.

It's our surest option to minimal damage for the wolves and the village losing a chance to have a known innocent even for a Day in this village where no one can trust any claim as there are no roles revealed as shared...

Okay. I need to look at some other things as well...

If the wolves manage to orchestrate my lynch toDay I need to have a good candidate to hunt as I will surely leave Lommywolf for you to lynch toMorrow if I just have a believable better candidate. After you see me killing one (hopefully a wolf) as I go then you know I spoke the truth and no wolf should be able to talk you out of lynching Lommy toMorrow.

EDIT: X'd with Rikae. I might just consider you as my target toDay... But I must read your post first...

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

EDIT: X'd with Rikae. I might just consider you as my target toDay... But I must read your post first...

You don't frighten me, and your threats make me trust you far less. Why not use your kill where you're "certain" you willl hit a wolf, eh?
If you have a kill at all, go ahead and kill me.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Okay Lommy chose then to portray herself as a Defender (seer) then. How nice. And also she had the good luck of hitting a non-ordo. Even better. How come the most important things? Although you forgot the fact that we can't trust anyone here with their word and that makes the defender in the worst scenario quite a redundant person here. The only one who can prove his role is the Guardian as he can do things others can't. I can show it to you the next Night. If you follow Lommy's advice there's nothing that could tell you whether what she told you was true or not. Anyone can pose as whatever they wish and we still won't know about even if they die.

This is a blatent lie. If you are truly the Guardian, your death will reveal your role and, by default, Lommy's as well. If not, you are a wolf, and your death without any assassination will also prove it.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Rikae

This is a blatent lie. If you are truly the Guardian, your death will reveal your role and, by default, Lommy's as well. If not, you are a wolf, and your death without any assassination will also prove it.

Sorry but now I don't either get your point or then you don't mine. Yes my death will prove my role. That's what I said. But it does it because of what I do when I die. No one else's role we can no for sure but the Guardian's. With "following Lommy's advice" I meant if you follow the "instructions" she will give you about the innocents, ordos or wolves... there will be no way of telling whether they were true or not.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Sorry but now I don't either get your point or then you don't mine. Yes my death will prove my role. That's what I said. But it does it because of what I do when I die. No one else's role we can no for sure but the Guardian's.

True, but only if you die. We can't be sure you will die toNight (and I think you won't, judging from your latest posts.)

Originally Posted by Nogrod

With "following Lommy's advice" I meant if you follow the "instructions" she will give you about the innocents, ordos or wolves... there will be no way of telling whether they were true or not.

But there will be. If you die alone, we know for certain Lommy is a true seer. If not, we know for certain she is a wolf.
It would be nice if you would take her with you instead of someone whose role you can't be certain about, but that would be your choice in that case.

[Nogrod]

I just noticed this...

Originally Posted by Rikae

If you die alone, we know for certain Lommy is a true seer. If not, we know for certain she is a wolf.

True. But when you realise she's a wolf you lose the chance to get rid of an extra wolf thus easing our situation.

Following my proposal you'll get the same information but after you see I'm right you also get an extra wolf as I do not need to lynch her. If you go Lommy's way you go wolves' way as there is minimal damage and threat to them.


I'm not sure about you Rikae. I'm a bit uneasy about Lommy's speculation about your trial. She might have tried to mislead us with strongly saying Greenie was innocentish while she was a wolf indeed and just tried to appease you by not suspecting you and pointing a finger at Izzy. Or then she covered you as her mate.

But the fact that you are sternly driving for the minimal damage for wolves scenario makes me doubt your innocense...

[McCaber]

Nogrod, with these odds, you would have a better chance of killing a gifted than a wolf. Unless you absolutely have a wolf, I think it would be better to lynch you now and take a wolf with you.

EDIT: crossed with Nogrod

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by McCaber

I think it would be better to lynch you now and take a wolf with you.

Don't you see that is just what the wolves want? They do not wish to face me during the Night and they wish for their dead being the one already known to most others. So you would be in total darkness toMorrow and they shouldn't face me during the Night as I can still hunt as well...

[Aganzir]

Ok, I think I'm going to be here until the deadline. I thought I would have had time to do homework and sleep, but hey who cares.

edit: xed with Lommy

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Rikae

You don't frighten me, and your threats make me trust you far less. Why not use your kill where you're "certain" you willl hit a wolf, eh?
If you have a kill at all, go ahead and kill me.

That doesn't sound like an innocent speaking to be sure.

Why should I waste my hunt on Lommy if I can take someone extra with me? After my death you will have all the knowledge to lynch Lommy the next. At best two consequent wolf-lynches.

I think I really need to revise my earlier suspicions... Sorry Rikae but you're veery near my trigger now indeed and I'm even feeling quite good with it.

Try to open your eyes people... Sorry but this is getting once again a bit frustrating.

And remember: if the wolves manage to lynch me toDay and after you see I took someone with me pay close attention to those who orchestrated this thing. It will give you a nice start to your lynch-list.

[Rikae]

Nogrod, if you were truly the Guardian you would be certain about Lommy's role.
If you want to use your power instead to take me out, so be it. I stand by what I said. Our most logical approach is to lynch you toDay - it's the only way we will know for certain what is going on, and if someone else dies with you, it's too bad you might take an innocent or another gifted, but we'll know your role and Lommy's wolfishness.
Honestly, if you truly had the village's best interests at heart, I actually think you would see the sense in what I'm saying and agree to it. Instead, you choose to threaten me. Well, what I'm saying is the truth as far as I can see, and I'm going to keep saying it, threats or no.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Nogrod, if you were truly the Guardian you would be certain about Lommy's role.
If you want to use your power instead to take me out, so be it. I stand by what I said. Our most logical approach is to lynch you toDay - it's the only way we will know for certain what is going on, and if someone else dies with you, it's too bad you might take an innocent or another gifted, but we'll know your role and Lommy's wolfishness.
Honestly, if you truly had the village's best interests at heart, I actually think you would see the sense in what I'm saying and agree to it. Instead, you choose to threaten me. Well, what I'm saying is the truth as far as I can see, and I'm going to keep saying it, threats or no.

Sorry Rikae. I can see your point and the village will gain if you lynch me and I take Lommy with me. Surely. But this is also the minimal damage for the wolves. The known wolf (Lommy) and the threat (known innocent who could kill freely once, after my deed known to you all) taken away with one blow.

Otherwise they would face much more harder times.

I'm not saying I'm hunting you in the end but I need to get a look at some others as well as Lommy will be easist lynch even the number of wolves can't deny the villagers toMorrow. If I have a good hunch enough I will go that way...

But first of all I'd suggest you really leave her for me. You can't lose with that scenario.

[Aganzir]

I must vote in a few minutes, and I think I'm going to vote either for Lommy or Caber. Is there anyone who agrees with me that we should kill Lommy today?

edit: xed with Lommy

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I must vote in a few minutes, and I think I'm going to vote either for Lommy or Caber. Is there anyone who agrees with me that we should kill Lommy today?

I'll go for Lommy if I must but I'd still prefer a scenario where I can deal her extra. For otherwise you others can't be sure of her guilt.

McCaber isn't a bad choice either.

I do think Valier has only been her normal self and wouldn't thus like to vote her even if she should show up indeed.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

The known wolf (Lommy) and the threat (known innocent who could kill freely once, after my deed known to you all) taken away with one blow.

While this is true, I'm seriously concerned that if you are the guardian and choose some other target, you are likely to kill a gifted (there are, after all, more of those than anything else.)

Certainly it's best if you take a different wolf with you, revealing one wolf while killing another - but at this point, the odds aren't so good for that happening. If you're confident about someone's wolfishness, that's your decision to make.

I still feel leaving you to kill Lommy during the night puts us in a worse situation, because if you are a wolf, we will have a shot-in-the-dark vote toDay, a dead seer toNight, and a good chance (especially with all the wolfish votes around) you won't be lynched toMorrow, either. It's just too risky - and even if you are the guardian, we still have a shot in the dark vote toDay and, if you are protected toNight, we won't know your role toMorrow so you won't be a known innocent anyway.

[Rikae]

I have to go now - those who haven't voted yet, please think carefully about what I've said.

[Thinlómien]

Protector - please protect me toNight, we can't afford losing a Defender now. I'm worth your trust.

I still have a nagging feeling the wolves are going to succeed in killing me toNight.

That is why I tell you the non-ordo is Valier.

Good Night!

edit: xed, obviously

[Volo]

The first day without audience was more than chaotic, and no wonder, because the Wolves had been united by their master.

The sun had been up for ten minutes when, quite unexpectedly, Nogrod, the famed optimist, who had even written books about the topic, failed to look at the bright side of life. ”I've been in tight situations with Werewolves but this looks pretty nasty indeed”.

To balance Nogrod’s misery, jolly Thinlómien hopped into the scene. ”I've been a-footbaging and watching the stars a little and I've started wondering who might be evil in our gang. I'm fairly sure Nogrod is a wolf”, said the Orc-Elf.

”I don’t see any need to talk with you. I know who you are and you're kind of over-happy and nice, almost cooing on top of being a Wolf”, answered Nogrod after which he was left to the silence. Only the Moose-Hunter’s voice touched the air at one point.

Nogrod sat down on the ground and covered himself with the cloak of ever-dim rhetoric. He tried to doze but thoughts about his true nature entered his head. The Dwarf felt duty call for him inside his head. He felt doomed as he rose up and cleared his voice. ”Do not waste your time on me or Thinlómien today! I'm a Guardian. I have a license to kill one wolf on my own. I will take care of the Orc-Elf next night”. He looked into the sky and a tear trickled down his cheek and was hidden in the Dwarf’s beard.

Menel listened to the Dwarf and was grateful for the news. ”I think it may be time to reveal what's happening. I am the Protector and I think I’ll be protecting you tonight, Nogrod, so you’ll at least get the chance to survive for tomorrow.

The Dwarf felt empty and sick, somebody else would pay with their lives for his survival. Another tear fell into his beard as he walked up to Menel and thanked him. Were he taller, he would have hugged the Hunter. ”You were a good lad, Menel, when we hunted together. Having you here brings me hope and yet I can’t throw aside the disturbing thought that you have changed…”

Brinn, who had preveously been disgusted by Dwarves, agreed, ”I think it's more likely that Nogrod-guy here is telling the truth. Sadly, I must point out that your plan has faults in it”.

”And I thought my plan would be foolproof”, whispered the Dwarf in disbelief. It was odd that he hadn’t noticed that nothing was foolproof anymore. No laws that had applied before seemed to work in this place. A heavy curse lay on all of them and he could nearly hear somebody, or something laughing.

Everybody stood silent and grim, thinking about their loyalties and lives. While Sally the Dwarves’ Advocate decided to trust both the Guardian and the Protector, Taliesin found it hard to ajust into the new situation and Rikae distrust. Soon others arrived to give their opinions, but only when Thinlómien returned, the curse began to tighten around Nogrod’s neck.

”Nogrod, you're evil. I’m a Defender and I know it. What you did was very cunning of you as it freed you from inventing messy dreams”, the Orc-Elf shouted. She took out her old, rusty sword and began rallying people to herself against the evil Wolf. Her campaing was most successful and soon there were others who shouted, ”Vote Nogrod and achieve true liberty!”

Nogrod on the other hand started his anti-campaing and general protest, ”Don’t vote Nogrod or Thinlómien!”, which was mistakingly simplified to ”Don’t vote!” by some.

While all of this was happening and different warriors had different thoughts, the Dwarf and the Orc-Elf had a staring contest, since they knew better than to have a fighting contest. It lasted many hours but in the end Thinlómien won and Nogrod had no choice but turn his sight elsewhere, which turned out to be Rikae. At the same moment the last vote fell into the bin. Nogrod’s life was at an end.

”I will take it upon myself to once again rid the world of the Evil’s minion!” boomed Death, or McCaber. As the fanatic man reached for his throwing knives, another dark shape turned into motion.

Aganzir, who was sitting on – or truth be said, under – her saddle which was attached to the horse in a most peculiar way, raced to stand between McCaber and Nogrod. ”Do not touch him!”

”Move away Aganzir! And McCaber, you heard her, don’t you dare touch Nogrod! This is between him and me!” commanded Thinlómien. The Orc-Elf walked swiftly to meet the Dwarf with her sword lifted. The Dwarf lifted his sledgehammer and tightened his jaw.

Without any warning she attacked. Nogrod was suprisingly quick with a heavy weapon like a sledgehammer and he managed to parry all her blows, but they were coming with such mad zeal that he found himself backing off towards the wall. Not even his positive attitude was there to help him, since the Orc-Elf had stolen even the last spark of it. Nogrod was less than two foot away from the wall of the temple when he found new strength and with a roar sent out a series of blows. Thinlómien was quick to dodge all of them, but one hit brushed her shoulder.

With growing pain and recless rage she slashed with inhuman, inelvish and inorcish strength. The stroke crushed the handle of Nogrod’s hammer and cut off his right wrist. The Dwarf cried out in pain and fell back to the wall.

Thinlómien grinned and put the tip of her blade to the heart of the Dwarf. She wispered to him ”There is no escape. Don’t make me destroy you. You do not realize your importance. Join me and together we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to Arda”.

”I’ll never join you!” spit the brave Dwarf.

”If you only knew the power of the dark side. Tar-Míriel never told you what happened to your daughter”.

”She told me enough! It was you who killed her”.

”No. I am your daughter”.

Nogrod’s eyes opened wide and he forgot his physical pain, ”No. No. That’s not true! That’s impossible!”

”Nothing is. Does my figure decieve you?” answered Thinlómien with a cold chucle.

”No! No! No!”

”Dwarves truly are foolish. You genuinly thought that I was born like this? Haha. No, you are very wrong. Very, very, very wrong”, she shook her head with emotion and a subtle smile. ”I am not a Dwarf. No. I am not an Orc either. Nor an Elf. Heh, I’m not even a Hobbit!”

Nogrod stared at her with disbelief, horror and fear, and a little curiosity.

She noticed it and asked herself, ”What am I?” Her grin broadened again and she said, ”Immortal, for one”. Thinlómien chucled, sheated her sword and answered herself, ”A Werewolf? No, that’s too obvious”. She shook her head and continued, ”Have you ever heard of the Ancient Beast? Well, that’s what I am”.

The Dwarf closed his eyes and fell to the ground sobbing.

”Ooh… You can’t do that now. You still promised to do something”.

”No… No… No”. Nogrod shivered.

”You have to, you have no right to brake the law”.

Nogrod’s sobbing quietened and he stood up with tears still clung to his cheeks.

”Here, take this”, Thinlómien said with well faked genuine concern and handed him a knife.

---------------~~

The other warriors had waited for the scene to end without moving closer to the two. Whether it was because of respect, fear or rational motives, wasn’t known. When they saw both Nogrod returning back alive and Thinlómien standing tall, they clapped and shouted with relief. Only Rikae turned her back and pushed her way away from the slowly advancing Dwarf. The Dwarf followed her through the crowd which made space as he draw near.

It was Rikae’s turn to scream as there was no place to hide in the circular dome. She could run though, but Nogrod followed her wherever she went. At last she turned to Thinlómien and asked, ”Do I have to?”

The answer was a ”Yes. It won’t hurt. Here, take this”. Thinlómien offered Rikae a heavy knife.

Unwillingly Rikae took the knife and out of pity turned to Nogrod, who was continuing his walk towards her. She took a few uncertain steps towards him and waited.

Both of them lifted their knives and pushed them deep into each other’s hearts.

----------------~~

When Rikae pulled out the knife out of Nogrod’s heart, he fell lifeless to the ground and tugged the knife he gripped out of Rikae’s heart.

She stood there looking at his body and thinking of tall grasses. Blood flew out of her and dirtied her shirt. She stood and stood and waited. Her white shirt had already turned red but as the blood dripped on her jeans it evaporated. And still she waited. Nearly all the others had gone to bed and there Rikae continued standing.

Thinlómien walked up to her and looked the dead Dwarf. She reached for Rikae’s hand and took it into her own. They looked at each other and then turned together to face the Eastern sky. A glow was coming from the horizon. As if a star raced over the sea towards them.

”Goodbye”, said Thinlómien and let go of Rikae’s hand.

Concern ran through Rikae’s bloodless face, ”You don’t have to leave, do you?”

”I do, I do…” she sighed and turned to follow the others into their bedchambers.

Rikae looked after her and waved her hand gently. Only long after Thinlómien had passed out of her view did she turn back to the glow. She wispered the name of the star and saw it nearing. Two smaller red stars shone inside the big white star. It let out a piercing howl as it flew towards Rikae.

A great white wolf landed softly in the middle of the Temple and all the sand turned white. He walked towards Rikae and bowed before her. Their eyes met. His red eyes and her white eyes. No words were needed as both knew that this would happen. She climbed on his back and looked at the dead Dwarf for the last time. The White Wolf leapt into the air.

-----------~~

Around:
Brinniel
THE Ka
satansaloser2005
Aganzir
McCaber
Thinlómien
Valier
Meneltarmacil
Kath
Naria
Azaelia of Willowbottom
Isabellkya

Gone:
Legate of Amon Lanc - lynched on Day0.1 - teleported away
Roa_Aoife - lynched on Day0.2 - joined the dance
Shastanis Althereduin - lynched on Day0.3 - reincarnated as the first Man
The Might - lynched on Day0.4 - escorted away and sailed away
Gil-Galad - lynched on Day0.5 - disappeared in a gate to a different world
Groin Redbeard - lynched on Day0.6 - returned to where he came from
A Little Green - lynched on Day0.7 - ended up on the moon
Ugh-Friedrich - wasn't allowed to enter the temple after stage1
Nogrod - lynched on Day1 - destroyed by his daughter
Rikae - hunted down by Nogrod on Day1 - carried away by the Great White Wolf

---------~~

Day1 ended, Night2 began.

Don't post on this thread.

Wolves and Specials, do what you can.

Lommy choose if you want to be "immortal" for the duration of Night2 or Day2.

[Isabellkya]

Ack, I keep getting sidetracked.

++Aganzir

I would prefer to vote Valier, yet she hasn't shown herself toDay and I would like her to speak firstly. I don't like the odds of Nog/Lommy.. yet one of them is obviously lying. I lean towards Lommy lying.. but I must agree with her that Nog has a tendency of being a a smooth and bold wolf.

I choose to place my vote with Agan, because she has consistantly been against Lommy.. yet instead of voting thusly; she has added McCaber. If anything is speaks to her wolfishness, because it seems she has a bit of a case of tunnel vision.

X'd with Nog, Lommy, Agan, Lommy.

[THE Ka]

Even though I don't trust her anymore than anyone else here, I do have to admit someone has finally said something important on the whole 'ranger/wolf' arguement:

Originally Posted by Agan

I don't believe Menel's claim. I think a ranger should have absolutely no reason to come forward now.

Really, they wouldn't. If Nogrod is what he claims to be, it is of no consequence to what other specials like rangers/protectors choose to do and protect. Nogrod might attack a 'wolf', but he might also try to take a protector down with him, or any other player. Besides, even if Nogrod did know with any strong conviction that someone was a wolf, it wouldn't be connected to the rangers at all, since they can't protect a wolf to begin with. If you tried, Volo or Legate would tell you that you couldn't, thus you protect someone else. Which is why Menel's decision to randomly voice his 'role' is interesting. Beyond the 'I am going to protect you Nogrod, *nudge nudge* thought you should know that before you ask anymore questions *nudge nudge*', and justifying it by Legate's decision to voice his role at the end of day 0.1. Which if anything else, looks more panicked than sending a message.

Especially if you are a gifted, and you are the first vote of the trial days. Not only is it a loss for ordo's, but it always is a downer (no pun intended) to be voted off first. Naturally, in such a setup it makes one a little defensive or just annoyed/panic.

If Menel is another wolf, then it might explain some of this, but again it seems too blalant. Which in turn can be a good tactic if you try it when others are using the fun power of shock and surprise, to just ride that boat for awhile, but keeping a safe distance as well (a la 'here you are nothing to hide, just a simple ranger' bit).

Originally Posted by Lommy

When I'm gone, please don't forget the connection between Nog and Agan... it's curiously friendship-like.

If I remember correctly, on the pre-day, there was a little of that going on, mostly Nogrod cheering over something. Though, I am not sure how much reason should be put into those posts, since if they are wolves it's not as if they somehow developed telekinesis and had a lovely chat about it. Though, if they are, I do have to agree there is some sort of friendly rivalry at least. Though, that is only what I saw on my trial day, and only from the position of Agan.


I'm sorry with what others may think, but I don't see the immediate suspicion of Rikae. Even if she says that she doesn't have enough time to make a longer and rational post, she still manages to make good points.
Also, Nogrod becomes very defensive after her vote, which is natural of anyone who's been voted. Though, Nogrod has mentioned in his much earlier posts that even if he was killed, that at least others would be convinced that Lommy is a wolf, even if it costs him. So, I am a bit more suspicious now that he has become even more defensive. The guardian plan of taking out Lommy at night to thus prove his role does work, but also the second plan he noted being a sacrifice.
Whether they are or not, or what may be, I fail to see how ultimately 'evil' Rikae's decision and reasoning is.


~ Ka

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by THE Ka

Whether they are or not, or what may be, I fail to see how ultimately 'evil' Rikae's decision and reasoning is.

I'm quite getting tired of repeating myself. The same knowledge both ways but minimal damage for wolves if I'm lynched toDay...

[Aganzir]

++ McCaber

[Nogrod]

Btw. Rikae's fast stepping away just minutes before the deadline made it. She's careful and crafty and trying to help the wolves case.

I will take her down if lynched.

You can take Lommy toMorrow.

[Nogrod]

Okay.

That would leave me kill Lommywolf.

++ McCaber

[Nogrod]

It's myself and Rikae or McCaber now.

Think