Lack of respect displayed by Gimli

[Hammerhand]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

alatar - I agree that the years with Belushi were the very best on SNL.


from Gwathagor



Why would you post something so obviously rude? I enjoy honest discussion about the films, the author, the books and other Middle-earth issues. I respect the educated opinion of many here. I notice that I continually cross swords with people like davem, William Cloud Hicklin and even alatar in the distant past, but all have remained civil and have not resorted to telling me to leave. They deal with issues - not resorting to personal sniping.

Are you afraid of differing opinion?

I am rather confused about what is going on here in the minds of a couple of people.

I thought your prior comment was pretty disrespectful to Matt to be honest - i think its important not to take things so seriously and accept a bit of stick when it ventures your way that way nobody has to "cross swords".

As regards to Gimli, I'm not sure who mentioned the comic-relief element of his portrayal but i found it quite irritating. I know John Rhys Davies added alot to the comedy value of the character, with his own catchphrases and so on but it was a tad overdone in my opinion.

A viewer with no prior knowledge of the Fellowship would have thought Legolas to be a God, Boromir a loser, and Gimli a midget clown. Each is as ridiculous a notion as the last!

Anyway.. with the tomb of Balin, and the stationing on the Steward's chair. I never picked up on it foremost, though i guess it would have been "frown-worthy" to sit on the Steward's chair not being a Steward, sort of like sitting on our Queen's throne to a slightly lesser degree, which would, i believe, be a massive mark of disrespect.

I don't think the standing on Balin's tomb was so big a deal, after all - he was attempting to protect it with his life against the Troll and nasty Orcsssss.

[alatar]

We should all take note of Gwathagor's apology, who took it upon himself to step up and state that he may have erred. Cheers to that.

Originally Posted by Hammerhand

I thought your prior comment was pretty disrespectful to Matt to be honest - i think its important not to take things so seriously and accept a bit of stick when it ventures your way that way nobody has to "cross swords".

Good words.

I don't think the standing on Balin's tomb was so big a deal, after all - he was attempting to protect it with his life against the Troll and nasty Orcsssss.

But I thought that Gimli admits later - at least in the Books - that he wouldn't do well fighting from horseback, and yet he places himself above his enemies (and behind his companions), which, to me, would be less than advantageous.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by alatar

But I thought that Gimli admits later - at least in the Books - that he wouldn't do well fighting from horseback, and yet he places himself above his enemies (and behind his companions), which, to me, would be less than advantageous.

Perhaps the tomb made up for Gimli's lack of height?

[Hammerhand]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Perhaps the tomb made up for Gimli's lack of height?

Thats a pretty fair assessment!

i thought Alatar's comment about fighting from horseback is valid... i mean, wouldn't his reach be somewhat limited? especially if he's fighting with an axe - he'd surely be at a disadvantage.

[Sauron the White]

from Alatar

But I thought that Gimli admits later - at least in the Books - that he wouldn't do well fighting from horseback, and yet he places himself above his enemies (and behind his companions), which, to me, would be less than advantageous.

If you look at the height that Gimli was working from on Balins tomb, the swing of his axe would have been perfect for an orcs head. I believe it would be a good foot or two shorter than if he were mounted upon the back of a decent sized horse. The foe who has to swing up at a defender usually is at the disadvantage. Gimli probably knows that as a hardened warrior.

I also think that he was making something of a statement with his stance and body language which is mirrored by his words 'let them know that there is one Dwarf left....etc" and sorry but that is a paraphrase and not a quote. He wanted to be the center of attraction for the invading Moria orcs and that was one way to do it distinguishing himself from his companions who were on the ground.

[Meriadoc1961]

For what it's worth, I found both of these scenes disrespectful, and totally unnecessary, even though we have been told that movies are different than books.

NO ONE should have been allowed to sit on the Steward's throne, other than the rightful Steward, and NO ONE would have allowed it! Forget about Aragorn and Gandalf! There are always guards in this sort of room to ENSURE that this sort of thing never happens! Pretending that there would be no guards in a room such as that, the throne room of a race and kingdom as ancient and noble in heritage as Gondor was, is beyond belief, just as it is beyond belief that Gandalf would be allowed to BEAT WITH HIS STAFF the Lord Denethor without ANY repercussions! That is truly stupidity put on display.

This really is not as trivial as some believe. This sort of outright disrespect, the sitting on the throne and the beating of the Lord of this people, would have led to a dissolving of any fellowship between the races. I will not buy at all into any "books are books, and movies are movies" arguments. They will not work.

Merry

[Sauron the White]

from Meriadoc1961

I will not buy at all into any "books are books, and movies are movies" arguments. They will not work.

Meriadoc... perhaps you are cross reading several different threads and are rather confused about the discussion here. We are discussing the merits, or lack of merit, to the depiction of Gimli on Balins tomb and later on Denethors throne. Both are film scenes and have nothing to do with the books.

The argument that you do not like - "books are books and movies are movies" (or perhaps the reality that you do not like to recognize) has often come from me .... but not in this thread and does not apply to this discussion. I have said repeatedly that we should judge the films by what works or does not work as a film. And that is what each post in this thread has attempted to do so far. So the whole film/movie thing has nothing to do with this right now.

You are attacking a line of debate that has not been used here.

It could well apply in other threads which compare the books to the movies and then make a judgement about the two. But not this one.

Regarding your point that nobody would be allowed on the stewards throne..... since the steward has just died - rather disgracefully at that - and no new one had yet been installed, I took it that the throne room was being used as some sort of battle central with meetings and planning. The formality of the room was temporarily dispensed with due to emergency circumstances. After all, it was wartime. To stand on polite ceremony in the middle of war is asking a bit much when there is much more at stake.

[Quempel]

Originally Posted by Meriadoc1961

For what it's worth, I found both of these scenes disrespectful, and totally unnecessary, even though we have been told that movies are different than books.

NO ONE should have been allowed to sit on the Steward's throne, other than the rightful Steward, and NO ONE would have allowed it! Forget about Aragorn and Gandalf! There are always guards in this sort of room to ENSURE that this sort of thing never happens! Pretending that there would be no guards in a room such as that, the throne room of a race and kingdom as ancient and noble in heritage as Gondor was, is beyond belief, just as it is beyond belief that Gandalf would be allowed to BEAT WITH HIS STAFF the Lord Denethor without ANY repercussions! That is truly stupidity put on display.

This really is not as trivial as some believe. This sort of outright disrespect, the sitting on the throne and the beating of the Lord of this people, would have led to a dissolving of any fellowship between the races. I will not buy at all into any "books are books, and movies are movies" arguments. They will not work.

Merry

I disagree, totally. Gandalf was with the King of Gondor, not the Stewart of Gondor. And last time I checked, King out ranked Stewart. As for Aragorn, he could and would have the right to sit on, tear down, color all over, feed his dog, have his friends sit on any seat in the hall. After all he was King. And it's good to be the King.

As for the beating of Denathor...I agree it probably was way over the top and not very Tolkien like. But it sure was fun to watch.

And the guards....would you go up against Gandalf? I wouldn't, I'd be afraid he'd turn me into a toad or a moth. I don't particularly like being either.