What of Curumo?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

It is quite a strange idea, because there are aa fe loose threads left in LOTR, such as "What happened to the Ents?"(and the Entwives too for that matter). "What happened to the true Aulean dwarfs?" and so on. But he leaves personal things unsaid, for example about Legolas and Gimli, and where their adventures led them. Most of the personal stories are left where they are at the end of the story, with just a hint o a happy/bad ending. But we don't ever find out much about Radagasst te brown, and I don't think even Tolkien knew what happened to the Blue Wizards (Alatar and Pallando).

He definitely said he did not know (see Unfinished Tales, he only says he "is afraid they failed"). Concerning Radagast, well, he was not that much of an important character, and since he was in his retreat among the wild animals even during the times of the War of the Ring and all the epic stuff and the only thing that ever drove him out of there (as far as we know) was a vocation from Saruman connected with the threat of the Nine, one should not be even surprised that we don't know more about what happened to him later: he, presumably, remained where he was all the time.
And concerning Gimli and Legolas, we are told quite enough about them in the Appendices, about their journeys together and Gimli's work with the Dwarves in the Glittering Caves, and in the end, they both left, Legolas built a ship and they presumably both reached Eressëa.

[The Might]

Answered by Tolkien in the UT:

Whereas Curunir was cast down, and utterly humbled, and perished at last by the hand of an oppressed slave; and his spirit went whithersoever it was doomed to go, and to Middle-earth, whether naked or embodied, came never back.

Just as Sauron or the WK he had been reduced to impotence and was no longer capable of assuming physical form. However, should the Dagor Dagorath be true I am sure he would have repented and joined the good side, then again this is only pure speculation on my part.

As for all the other questions that are left more or less unanswered... don't you need some mysteries after all?

And as the Professor himself said in letter #144:

And even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally).

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by The Might

Answered by Tolkien in the UT:

Oh yeah, but I guess the question would be "so where it was whithersoever it was doomed to go?" If it means "becomings pure spirit with no power, but wandering still around", like Sauron, that would make sense - yet what does being dissolved by the wind mean? I am aware that the mist that was visible was not the very essence of Saruman, only a phenomenon, visible to the hobbits around, but one keeps thinking about the question "and what if it really completely dissolved him in the way that he really was no more?" (In the meaning, because we know nothing can just disappear, even by the laws of physics, that he would be "blown" into the Void or something.) On the other hand, during the destruction of Mordor we see the big shadowy figure of Sauron disappear in a similar way (the scene is almost the same, only Sauron's departure is "bigger", as he still was on the top of his power at the time he is destroyed), so one can conclude that whatever happened to Sauron also happened to Saruman.

Originally Posted by The Might

Just as Sauron or the WK he had been reduced to impotence and was no longer capable of assuming physical form. However, should the Dagor Dagorath be true I am sure he would have repented and joined the good side, then again this is only pure speculation on my part.

*eyes shine* But actually, is there anything that supports this idea of yours? I mean, is it said anywhere who would take which side, or at least some general example from which you could judge this as probable?

[The Might]

Legate, you do realise the answer is in the quote.
Do the words "pure speculation on my part" ring a bell?
No, I have no idea really.
But, if as he died he did look towards the West, as he was supposed to return to Mandos but this was denied.
I have no clue if in the many ages to come he would hate the Valar for kicking him out or realise his mistake but I hope that he made the good decision like Ar-Pharazon.

As for where his spirit went as far as I am aware this is the only quote from all the works that deals with this and so is the only source of infromation.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by The Might

Legate, you do realise the answer is in the quote.
Do the words "pure speculation on my part" ring a bell?
No, I have no idea really.

Yes, I got that, but by the formulation I hoped that you have some original, though vague hint that it might have been so.

Originally Posted by The Might

I have no clue if in the many ages to come he would hate the Valar for kicking him out or realise his mistake but I hope that he made the good decision like Ar-Pharazon.

Hey wait, so that old idio... ahem, that old king repented? Now that's indeed silly. In that case Saruman must have as well. I would certainly like him there more than that madman. Just where have I heard that: "To the very same Heaven, as me, the old venerable holy father Saruman? No way!!!"

[Groin Redbeard]

Whereas Curunir was cast down, and utterly humbled, and perished at last by the hand of an oppressed slave; and his spirit went whithersoever it was doomed to go, and to Middle-earth, whether naked or embodied, came never back.

Interesting, thanks for clearing that up Might.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

A little late in the discussion, but new to the board... (and call me Ibrin or Ibri, it's easier)

I don't have my books on hand to go looking for the reference at the moment, but Tolkien did say that Alatar and Pallando, in their falling, may have been the source for persistent "black magic" cults that persist "even to this day" (whatever "this day" might be). I believe he also speculates somewhere that Sauron might have gotten to them before they completed their task of trying to bolster the resistance against him in the East.

My feeling about Saruman's spirit is that he may have wound up in a sort of Limbo -- not the doom of the Void, nor the reward of the Timeless Halls, or even Aman. For him, he may be caught in a personal Purgatory (all rather in keeping with Tolkien's Catholic beliefs) -- not unlike the Wandering Spirits of Dickens' "A Christmas Carol." He did not do what he was supposed to do in that life, and now is condemned to wander among those he could have helped, a witness to all he is now powerless to share or aid. Just my thoughts, of course.