Treachery of Men Discussion/Planning Thread - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

littlemanpoet · 01-09-2008, 10:49 AM

Lachrandir? A good guy? Never thought of him that way myself.....

Here's how I see things possibly unfolding.

Option 1:

Thorn knows a confrontation is about to take place and is waiting for Jord to reveal herself as Morgoth's rather powerful pawn. Therefore he is listening to the Song and through it hears Khandr's final plea, and somehow manages to give him peace though not necessarily hope. Because this happens within the harmonies of the Song, Jord cannot perceive it and doesn't know who Thorn is but that someone has intervened.

Lachrandir doesn't trust the Ulfings, true; Thorn is an Ulfing; why would Lachrandir listen to him any more than the others? So Thorn could attempt to tell him and be rebuffed.

If Thorn maintains his distance from Jord - for now - he can tell Lachrandir and be rebuffed - which he expects anyway and which is why he spoke first to Khandr.

Option 2:

Thorn intervenes between Jord and Khandr, gives Khandr enough knowledge of the Song to give him peace in death, and then is killed by Jord. Plain and simple.

Option 1 seems more interesting to me than Option 2, and Option 1 has the added mystique of Jord not necessarily knowing that Thorn knows; which would make their confrontation later a lot more interesting too.

Does this seem workable?

Gwathagor · 01-09-2008, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Lachrandir doesn't trust the Ulfings, true; Thorn is an Ulfing; why would Lachrandir listen to him any more than the others? So Thorn could attempt to tell him and be rebuffed.

Option 1 seems more interesting to me than Option 2, and Option 1 has the added mystique of Jord not necessarily knowing that Thorn knows; which would make their confrontation later a lot more interesting too.

I like this!

Lalaith · 01-09-2008, 12:39 PM

Ang and I had originally worked out that Embla would take a kind of Cassandra role, that she would try to warn Lachrandir but he would be too haughty to listen to her or understand her properly.

However, it obviously would be stupid/unlikely for both Thorn AND Embla to try to warn the elves and for them to refuse to listen to either of them.

So perhaps Embla should just skulk away somewhere...

Folwren · 01-09-2008, 12:58 PM

Well...It scarcely seems good to cut you out of something that was planned originally.

I just thought that it might be dangerous for Thorn to even try to contact Lachrandir at all, wanted as he is by Uldor. And yet...I, like Gwathagor, liked Elempi's idea.

Perhaps, Lalaith, Embla might attempt it and not get to Lachrandir. She coudl tell Tathren, or try to, anyway... I don't know.

Nogrod · 01-09-2008, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lalaith

So perhaps Embla should just skulk away somewhere...

Well she might go skulking somewhere with Fastarr...

I was indeed thinking about a post which would lead the two to Khandr's residence and meet Thorn there - and possibly Briga if she hasn't left already (there hasn't been a long time).

But do you wish for Thorn to leave first so that Fastarr and Embla try themselves or should they meet the old man (and / or Briga) first?

PS. Sorry. I've had some hectic days and will have until the weekend is over but I'll try to keep up.

littlemanpoet · 01-09-2008, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Ang and I had originally worked out that Embla would take a kind of Cassandra role, that she would try to warn Lachrandir but he would be too haughty to listen to her or understand her properly.

However, it obviously would be stupid/unlikely for both Thorn AND Embla to try to warn the elves and for them to refuse to listen to either of them.

So perhaps Embla should just skulk away somewhere...

On the contrary, I rather like the idea that Lachrandir gets not one but two chances, and blows it both times.

Noggie and Lalaith, if is seems all right to you, how about Fastarr and Embla attempt to talk to Lachrandir first, and then after Thorn has also tried and failed to convince the arrogant Elf, they meet and talk?

Gwathagor · 01-10-2008, 12:47 AM

Yes, I really like the Embla=Cassandra concept.

piosenniel · 01-12-2008, 03:57 PM

Noinkling

I've filled in my SAVE. Take it and run with it!

~*~ Pio

Noinkling · 01-13-2008, 03:24 AM

Thanks, Pio!

Will see what I can do.

Nogrod · 01-13-2008, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Noggie and Lalaith, if is seems all right to you, how about Fastarr and Embla attempt to talk to Lachrandir first, and then after Thorn has also tried and failed to convince the arrogant Elf, they meet and talk?

Suits me fine.

I'll try to post tomorrow:
- Embla and Fastarr come to Khandr's place and find him gone.
- Fastarr suggests they find Thorn but Embla calls for an immediate attempt to find Lachrandir.
- They go to search the elf.

I could write them as far as finding him but I can also leave to them leaving Khandr's residence.

Embla surely would be the one to address the elf.

Is that okay with Lalaith and lmp?

PS: Where should they find the elves? Any ideas where Lachrandir is right now?

Lalaith · 01-13-2008, 05:30 PM

Nogrod, I think you should certainly get those two somewhere, so by all means, take them to the elf!

Ok, so now we talk to the elf before we find Khandr dead....that would kind of work actually, because if we come to Lachrandir with a dead body, then clearly that's hard evidence he should listen to, while at the moment it's just speculation and Embla's visions, and its easier for him to dismiss us.
Or maybe we should talk to Mith's little chap, I'm sure she won't mind.
Whatever, you decide.

What will happen, btw, when we do find the body? Should we in fact find the body?

littlemanpoet · 01-13-2008, 06:49 PM

Lachrandir will be found with Uldor and Ulfast on the hunt; and being with them is finally becoming respectful of their prowess. So he'll have to be hunted for on the hunt.

I think the body should be found. Would Jord/Thruingwethil want to hide it?

01-09-2008, 12:39 PM	#3
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	Ang and I had originally worked out that Embla would take a kind of Cassandra role, that she would try to warn Lachrandir but he would be too haughty to listen to her or understand her properly. However, it obviously would be stupid/unlikely for both Thorn AND Embla to try to warn the elves and for them to refuse to listen to either of them. So perhaps Embla should just skulk away somewhere... __________________ Out went the candle, and we were left darkling

01-09-2008, 12:58 PM	#4
Folwren Messenger of Hope Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a tiny, insignificant little town in one of the many States. Posts: 5,076	Well...It scarcely seems good to cut you out of something that was planned originally. I just thought that it might be dangerous for Thorn to even try to contact Lachrandir at all, wanted as he is by Uldor. And yet...I, like Gwathagor, liked Elempi's idea. Perhaps, Lalaith, Embla might attempt it and not get to Lachrandir. She coudl tell Tathren, or try to, anyway... I don't know. __________________ A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. - C.S. Lewis

01-10-2008, 12:47 AM	#7
Gwathagor Shade with a Blade Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: A Rainy Night In Soho Posts: 2,512	Yes, I really like the Embla=Cassandra concept. __________________ Stories and songs.

01-12-2008, 03:57 PM	#8
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	Noinkling I've filled in my SAVE. Take it and run with it! ~*~ Pio __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

01-13-2008, 03:24 AM	#9
Noinkling Wight Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Bird and Baby Posts: 109	Thanks, Pio! Will see what I can do. __________________ But the place that draws me ever/When my fancy's running wild,/Is a little pub in Oxford/Called The Eagle and the Child . . .

01-09-2008, 10:49 AM	#1
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Lachrandir? A good guy? Never thought of him that way myself..... Here's how I see things possibly unfolding. Option 1: Thorn knows a confrontation is about to take place and is waiting for Jord to reveal herself as Morgoth's rather powerful pawn. Therefore he is listening to the Song and through it hears Khandr's final plea, and somehow manages to give him peace though not necessarily hope. Because this happens within the harmonies of the Song, Jord cannot perceive it and doesn't know who Thorn is but that someone has intervened. Lachrandir doesn't trust the Ulfings, true; Thorn is an Ulfing; why would Lachrandir listen to him any more than the others? So Thorn could attempt to tell him and be rebuffed. If Thorn maintains his distance from Jord - for now - he can tell Lachrandir and be rebuffed - which he expects anyway and which is why he spoke first to Khandr. Option 2: Thorn intervenes between Jord and Khandr, gives Khandr enough knowledge of the Song to give him peace in death, and then is killed by Jord. Plain and simple. Option 1 seems more interesting to me than Option 2, and Option 1 has the added mystique of Jord not necessarily knowing that Thorn knows; which would make their confrontation later a lot more interesting too. Does this seem workable?

01-13-2008, 05:30 PM	#11
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	Nogrod, I think you should certainly get those two somewhere, so by all means, take them to the elf! Ok, so now we talk to the elf before we find Khandr dead....that would kind of work actually, because if we come to Lachrandir with a dead body, then clearly that's hard evidence he should listen to, while at the moment it's just speculation and Embla's visions, and its easier for him to dismiss us. Or maybe we should talk to Mith's little chap, I'm sure she won't mind. Whatever, you decide. What will happen, btw, when we do find the body? Should we in fact find the body? __________________ Out went the candle, and we were left darkling

01-13-2008, 06:49 PM	#12
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Lachrandir will be found with Uldor and Ulfast on the hunt; and being with them is finally becoming respectful of their prowess. So he'll have to be hunted for on the hunt. I think the body should be found. Would Jord/Thruingwethil want to hide it?