That's not even one of Uglúk's faults

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by alatar

My comment regarding the terrain is that, by this time of the chase, Uglúk and his boys were near Fangorn, it was hilly (uphill) and there were trees. Maybe not the best place in which to fight from horseback.

At the edge of Fangorn, to be precise. But this does not mean still that the Riders would have to dismount, as long as they did not enter the forest itself (and maybe even then, to a certain distance... though Fangorn was a wild forest...). Anyway, there were Mauhúr and his lads coming out of the forest before, and we don't hear anything about the Riders dismounting, as far as I know.

Originally Posted by alatar

Agreed. But we do not know if Eomer chose to leave his horse behind, as maybe he thought that his horse was already overtired and so risked the chance of death due to the terrain.

A Rohir, leaving his horse behind just like that? Very, very improbable.

Originally Posted by alatar

So, knowing this about him, how fey do we allow him to be? Will this future King willy-nilly decide to duel any big orc that looks important? Does need drive him, or does he simply enjoy the combat, regardless of the risk and implications of his possible loss? Is he that macho?

I already stated my opinion (see above in my post and below now):

Originally Posted by alatar

I see him as fighting Ugluk out of necessity, not honor, as orcs have none.

That's your opinion. However, that does not speak about Uglúk, but about Éomer - he, unlike you apparently, believes that Uglúk deserves the "honourable fight", whatever kind of nassty creature he is.

Originally Posted by alatar

Did Azog show a moral flaw when he let Nár live to tell of the humiliating death of Thrór? Instead of simply killing the two, Azog had to pridefully boast (easy to do when a Balrog has your back), and this led to his eventual downfall.

That would be for the goblin historians to judge. The successive leader would probably say so ("Azog was an idiot, I will be a better leader. And we will have revenge for our defeat. Let's crush the Dwarves!!!" ...and so they went to Erebor...).

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Legate, your language analysis holds up as far as it is analysis; but there's a point at which you switch to opinion. There's nothing in the text to support that Eomer saw Ugluk as an equal in any other way except that he was leader of the orcs.

It is just an opinion and I said it. But that's what I encourage people to do. And I said it also because it better illustrates the way I see the Orcs, like Uglúk, so people can get clearer picture of what I have in mind when I am speaking more in general.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

At the edge of Fangorn, to be precise. But this does not mean still that the Riders would have to dismount, as long as they did not enter the forest itself (and maybe even then, to a certain distance... though Fangorn was a wild forest...). Anyway, there were Mauhúr and his lads coming out of the forest before, and we don't hear anything about the Riders dismounting, as far as I know.

The forest did not start all in a line; trees began to appear before reaching the 'edge.' But that has to be backed up, like I stated.

A Rohir, leaving his horse behind just like that? Very, very improbable.

Did they slay the orcs at night from their horses - not known for crawling - or did they leave them then and give battle, as they will later at Helm's Deep? And Eomer gives horses to strangers, so improbable things do happen.

That's your opinion. However, that does not speak about Uglúk, but about Éomer - he, unlike you apparently, believes that Uglúk deserves the "honourable fight", whatever kind of nassty creature he is.

That would be your opinion regarding Eomer. Why would he risk this? How did he know Ugluk was 'worthy,' while all of the other orcs that he shot from a distance or stabbed as they slept not worthy? Why do we not see this later? Was, in all of Middle Earth, only Ugluk worthy of such attentions?

That would be for the goblin historians to judge. The successive leader would probably say so ("Azog was an idiot, I will be a better leader. And we will have revenge for our defeat. Let's crush the Dwarves!!!" ...and so they went to Erebor...).

"We need to assemble our troops to attack those thieving dwarfs. Send messages to all our kin - use the good dwarven stationary this time..."


Sorry for the double post.