WW XXXXI: With a Twist

[mormegil]

Post 86 is an odd post indeed. I'm not really sure why he is saying what he is saying here. He starts by going after Shasta a bit for going after Nerwen and defending some IC talk. Then he says something about TP having players post certain things??? I don't get this bit at all. He talks about the twists and is glad day 1 is longer.


Post 116 talks briefly about Nerwen and Shasta. He thinks Nerwen is innocent enough and Shasta guilty. He concludes that if Shasta is guilty so is Kath which makes Legate innocent Feels that it is too early to begin making too many connections between players but already made the Shasta-Kath-Legate connection.

Post 117 is a quick follow-up to a question Eomer made about what Nerwen said and thinks she is giving sound advice and doesn't appear wolfish. He seems to be doing a lot of Nerwen defending already. He ends the post with this:

I could of course be wrong...

This is always a bit worrisome but innocents do this too.

Also, it is important to note that there is not vote on day 1.

Post 198 he talks in circles and I don't really follow what he said here. He does apologize for a no vote and says he was confused on the time, which being how unusual day 1's time was is moderately understandable.

Post 230 again he defends Nerwen and begins to be suspicious of Eomer, which came out of nowhere. Mainly he suspects him because of his Day 1 vote for Nerwen and votes for Eomer.

This is really odd. In almost every post so far he has mentioned Nerwen in a positive light. Why is he so intent upon saying she appears innocent in every post?

Post 283

I do feel a bit better about him after reading the last post. It's good that he gave us his thoughts for a change.

I think he is refering to Eomer but this is rich coming from somebody who has only posted 6 times and all very short and insubstantial.

I guess we won't find out who was the wolves' target...that would be interesting.

These lines always scare me, as did Farael's first post of the day, as they seem to contrived to be sincere.

To SPM, I thought that way because Kath defended Shasta after Nerwen's attack. So it kind of figured that if Shasta, who I did suspect at that time was a wolf, so would be Kath.

And yet, this is somebody who has defended Nerwen, whom I suspect greatly, in basically every post. He does so indirectly in this post with the above quote.

Conclusion:

I really don't trust The Might. I've seen nothing of any substance, a missed vote, constant defense of somebody I highly suspect, an odd out of the blue vote for Eomer who I think innocent, a contrived sounding statement about who was protected, and just a low post volume. This all adds up to put The Might high on the suspect list.

[Isabellkya]

Originally Posted by mormegil

Post 86 is an odd post indeed. I'm not really sure why he is saying what he is saying here. He starts by going after Shasta a bit for going after Nerwen and defending some IC talk. Then he says something about TP having players post certain things??? I don't get this bit at all. He talks about the twists and is glad day 1 is longer.

I think I can shed some light on this aspect which you seem to be confused about; as I'm familiar with it from other games I've played. It is referred to as a posting requirement. It can be anything, including a certain word in one post each day; or lyrics of a song.. practically anything the MC can imagine. I once had the unfortunate task of having to make a post each day in 1337 speak.. which was ech. Sometimes, other players can give you posting requirements.. all depending on roles and the MC. Typically, if you fulfill your posting requirements, you get 'gifts' or special powers; which can range from anything the MC fancies to give you. It can be a shield raise, a vigilante daykill, a resurrection...etc. However I think it would be odd to see such things here at BD; as it is a different game setup.

Back to more current things.. I saw somewhere on the thread, but couldn't find the actual post; but someone made the comment of Boro being a controversial player. I definately think I see a bit of that here in this game.. can't exactly compare to other games.. but definately something to watch out for.

mm kay, I'll continue reading now.

[Kath]

I will be back for the deadline. I WILL. But just in case I'm not.

++NERWEN

Because I don't dare not vote and I am at least suspicious of her. I WILL be back!

[Farael]

Votes thus far

Kath : Nerwen (Nerwen 1)
Nerwen : Mormegil (Nerwen 1, Morm 1)
Mormegil : Nerwen (Nerwen 2, Morm 1)
Nerwen : - Morm (Nerwen 2)
Boromir : Might (Nerwen 2, Might 1)
Might : Eomer (Nerwen 2, Might 1, Eomer 1)
Saucepan : Mac (Nerwen 2, Might 1, Eomer 1, Mac 1)
Farael: Mac (Nerwen 2, Mac 2, Might 1, Eomer 1)
Aganzir : Mac (Mac 3, Nerwen 2, Might 1, Eomer 1)
Isabellyka: Nerwen (Mac 3, Nerwen 3, Might 1, Eomer 1)

[Farael]

Another votes update


Kath : Nerwen (Nerwen 1)
Nerwen : Mormegil (Nerwen 1, Morm 1)
Mormegil : Nerwen (Nerwen 2, Morm 1)
Nerwen : - Morm (Nerwen 2)
Boromir : Might (Nerwen 2, Might 1)
Might : Eomer (Nerwen 2, Might 1, Eomer 1)
Saucepan : Mac (Nerwen 2, Might 1, Eomer 1, Mac 1)
Farael: Mac (Nerwen 2, Mac 2, Might 1, Eomer 1)
Aganzir : Mac (Mac 3, Nerwen 2, Might 1, Eomer 1)
Isabellyka: Nerwen (Mac 3, Nerwen 3, Might 1, Eomer 1)
Rikae: Aganzir (Mac 3, Nerwen 3, Might 1, Eomer 1, Aganzir 1)
Macalaure Aganzir (Mac 3, Nerwen 3, Aganzir 2, Might 1, Eomer 1)

[Farael]

Deadline coming up in 15 minutes

Kath : Nerwen (Nerwen 1)
Nerwen : Mormegil (Nerwen 1, Morm 1)
Mormegil : Nerwen (Nerwen 2, Morm 1)
Nerwen : - Morm (Nerwen 2)
Boromir : Might (Nerwen 2, Might 1)
Might : Eomer (Nerwen 2, Might 1, Eomer 1)
Saucepan : Mac (Nerwen 2, Might 1, Eomer 1, Mac 1)
Farael: Mac (Nerwen 2, Mac 2, Might 1, Eomer 1)
Aganzir : Mac (Mac 3, Nerwen 2, Might 1, Eomer 1)
Isabellyka: Nerwen (Mac 3, Nerwen 3, Might 1, Eomer 1)
Rikae: Aganzir (Mac 3, Nerwen 3, Might 1, Eomer 1, Aganzir 1)
Macalaure Aganzir (Mac 3, Nerwen 3, Aganzir 2, Might 1, Eomer 1)
Legate: Aganzir (Aganzir 3, Mac 3, Nerwen 3, Might 1, Eomer 1)

As it stands right now, Aganzir is done for...

[Aganzir]

Someone switch to Mac, please.
If I die today, take a closer look on Rikae and Legate too. I don't think they are players that are convinced that easily.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Well, it seems unlikely that I can get Nerwen lynched, because she can counter my move (if, as I presume, she is hovering around). If she likes, she can lynch the Might rather than Aganzir.

++THE MIGHT

It may look odd that I'm leaving the choice to her who I have voted for twice previously, but that's the way this situation has unfolded.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

So, does no-one else think we may have an extra wolf on our hands now? That would be grim. Or am I missing something about the narrative?

The events of yesterday were overall rather confusing. I note that the Hunter only kills if her chosen villain was indeed a wolf (from the game rules). Valier obviously killed ordo Azaelia, but this was clearly to tie different threads of the game together. Azaelia, due to lack of involvement, had to perish. But if we consider it very likely that Valier did not choose to kill Azaelia, can we then suppose that Valier's top suspect is therefore not a wolf?

Also, a little bird has given me this idea, and I thought I'd throw it out there. The Mod has said something (slightly ambiguous) about dealing a blow to the side of those villagers who do not meet the requirements of the game -- in this case Azaelia. Being ordinary, is it possible that the Mod has punished Azaelia's side (the innocent villagers) and refused to condemn the Hunter's chosen werewolf?

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

So, does no-one else think we may have an extra wolf on our hands now? That would be grim. Or am I missing something about the narrative?

The events of yesterday were overall rather confusing. I note that the Hunter only kills if her chosen villain was indeed a wolf (from the game rules). Valier obviously killed ordo Azaelia, but this was clearly to tie different threads of the game together. Azaelia, due to lack of involvement, had to perish. But if we consider it very likely that Valier did not choose to kill Azaelia, can we then suppose that Valier's top suspect is therefore not a wolf?

Also, a little bird has given me this idea, and I thought I'd throw it out there. The Mod has said something (slightly ambiguous) about dealing a blow to the side of those villagers who do not meet the requirements of the game -- in this case Azaelia. Being ordinary, is it possible that the Mod has punished Azaelia's side (the innocent villagers) and refused to condemn the Hunter's chosen werewolf?

I hadn't actually thought of that. However, if that were the case I think Farael may have been it due to his first statement today. It leads us all to believe that it was the ranger and not the cursed.

I had thought for sure it was the ranger based upon what was written but upon closer examination I'm not so sure...

Originally Posted by The Phantom

but before it all the unmistakable ringing of a sword being drawn from its sheath.

After several minutes of clatter, a loud yelping was heard, as if some beast had been hurt. And then... silence.

As the dawn came, veiled and cool, the villagers emerged from their houses and were met with a surprise.

No one was missing.

"A victory has been had!" cried the voice outside the encompassing smokes.

"Nay!" answered the fog. "It is I who have had the victory this night."

"So say you!" returned the voice

The sword is what convinces me that the ranger helped...however reading the other part more closely than I did at first makes me wonder. It is very ambiguous on both. Either way, we still have some wolves to kill so I don't want to get too hung up on this, though if it is true that we have a new wolf that means that the ranger does not know an innocent as previously thought.

[Nerwen]

I don’t have much time right now, but I will do what I can. Some notes on people:

Mac– I felt, on the first Day, that there was something false about Nogrod and Mac’s interactions. Mac’s attempts to cast suspicion on other people also seem rather forced. Against that– well he did deliver a wolf. I think people are dismissing that much too lightly. I mean, a wolf might want to lynch another wolf to appear innocent– but then, you know, an innocent might want to lynch a wolf too. If I had to choose between voting Mac and SpM, I’d perhaps choose Mac– but I'd rather not have to.

Eomer: Did anyone else notice his remark at the close of yesterDay, that he didn't care whether Valier or I got lynched? Is that because he suspected us both, as he said, or because from his point of view it really didn't matter– i.e. he's a wolf and doesn't care which innocent gets it? This is just a thought, mind you. His explanation of his reasons for trying to save Nogrod seemed pretty genuine to me.

Kath: I made my case against her yesterDay. I've got nothing to add to it, except the way she started to back off her suspicions of me, but has now voted me– is this because SpM said something about the way she seemed to be carefully giving herself room to back down?

Now for my current main suspect. Let’s look at some highlights of Mormegil’s career–

He casts random suspicions around:

Originally Posted by mormegil

Farael seems the most, in your face, vocal person which always makes me wonder, but to be fair it seems fairly standard for him and I do tend to be a bit suspicious of him but if I were to pick a suspect now it would be him.

He suspects other people for casting random suspicions around; suspects anyone who disagrees with him; is highly jumpy and defensive:

Originally Posted by mormegil

I'm not entirely sure what you are talking about here Nerwen. You seem rather bothered that I voiced some suspicion over Farael and yet what are we supposed to do? How is this?

I'm suspicious of nobody and everybody must be innocent?

I stated that it was a stretch but I might as well state the one minor suspicion I had.

On the other hand, Rikae, in her two posts, seems rather overly eager and antsy to throw suspicion all over, much like a wolf would do.

Honestly these are weak suspicions but right now Rikae is the top then Nerwen and Farael rounding off 2 and 3 respectively.

(Note that prior to this he had shown no signs of suspecting me at all– apparently it's straight-out revenge.)

He attacks other people for being defensive:

Originally Posted by mormegil

The more Nerwen speaks the more I think she is a jumpy wolf that feels that she needs to defend everything she does or says and any accusation thrown at her. Wolves often fall into this pitfall of getting overly jumpy and anxious and I think Nerwen has fallen into that pitall.

His latest is another attack on someone for having a different opinion:

Originally Posted by mormegil

I really don't trust The Might. I've seen nothing of any substance, a missed vote, constant defense of somebody I highly suspect, an odd out of the blue vote for Eomer who I think innocent, a contrived sounding statement about who was protected, and just a low post volume. This all adds up to put The Might high on the suspect list.

Now, The Might has not "constantly defended" me, or anything like it. And the vote for Eomer was hardly unreasonable, given Eomer's last-minute attempt to save a known wolf! (I myself think Eomer is probably innocent, but that's not the point.)

In conclusion– I don't know if Morm's a wolf or just a serious hypocrite. I think he's a wolf.

EDIT: X'd with Mormegil and Eomer.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

So, does no-one else think we may have an extra wolf on our hands now? That would be grim.

It's possible. From the narrative I think it's more likely the Ranger was involved– but as you say, it's confusing. Deliberately so, I imagine. All we can do, I suppose, is look out for someone whose behaviour changes.

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Also, a little bird has given me this idea, and I thought I'd throw it out there. The Mod has said something (slightly ambiguous) about dealing a blow to the side of those villagers who do not meet the requirements of the game -- in this case Azaelia. Being ordinary, is it possible that the Mod has punished Azaelia's side (the innocent villagers) and refused to condemn the Hunter's chosen werewolf?

I hadn't thought of that. Yes, it's possible. So depending on how you interpret it, the results of last Night might point either directly towards or directly away from those of us whom Valier suspected.

However, I believe Azaelia gave notice in the WW42 admin thread that she was dropping out, so I don't know if what she did counts as failing to vote (which I suppose is what The Phantom meant).

EDIT: X'd with Legate.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

All right, people, I'm back and I hope to give some time to sorting my thoughts out during the rest of toDay.

First, a response:

Originally Posted by TM

And to Legate, this has something to do with the fact that I have vacation now and thus a lot more time on my hands. So instead of learning for some test I can think a bit more rather then just post quickly.

Good to hear that, if there is really nothing more behind it, then it's okay. Yet I must say one thing that troubles me, TM - if you have so much time on your hands, why do your posts stay mostly on jumping between three or four people and nothing to say on others? It looks like programmedly turning around several suspects.

But, let's move now on to other things.

I was somewhat doubtful about Mac's theory about Aganzir, nevertheless, his arguments as summed up in one of his last posts sound quite convincing. I, for one, am the last person to base my suspicions on what someone else says. However, after re-reading Agan's posts, I am getting the bad feeling that maybe this clever Agan-wolf came among us once again. But I thought also about her voting: on Day 1 she voted Nog, as we all know. On Day 2, she voted for Mac - and that was absolutely throwaway vote at that time. I thought that maybe, had she been a wolf, after the 1st-Day fall of her packmate, she decided to back up a little and hide out of sight, while (eventually) building up a case against Mac for further use. I could also add that this move will also serve well if Mac is a wolf - a safe vote for a fellow wolf (as opposite to unsafe-going vote on Day 1). Of course I don't want to overcombinate things, yet this is also a possibility (though I am inclined to belive Mac innocent right now).

Concerning the other players. I must say it is quite hard for me to make my mind about the "high-class" vocal players, as there's too many of them: including dead Nogrod, with SpM and Boro and Mac and morm and Farael this makes almost half of the village. It would be quite improbable that a wolf wouldn't be among them (although if he weren't, the worse for us). But I must say these are very dangerous waters for me, as the discussions are tangled and it is hard to spot anything. Who intrigues me the most currently is SpM. YesterDay, he supported the suspicions on Valier short after it was voiced, which could be this "voice of Saruman"-tactics without actually voting himself, and when the bandwaggon was rolling, he conviniently jumped in. On the other hand, his vote for Nog on Day 1 was the second one, which on the other hand would speak for his innocence. SpM is clearly not a stupid player and he could have retracted still. What I want to say, mainly: whatever the case, we should not forget SpM (I originally mistyped and wrote RPG ), because if Nog's death was orchestrated, this could serve him well.
I am probably going to do a larger analysis of some of these people, if I have the chance, yet this could also mean spending several hours by this (given the length of their posts). Whatever, I will start with SpM and will see.

One word about Nerwen. She looked innocent to me at the beginning, but given her votes and discussions with people, like with Valier and Kath yesterDay she starts to seem more and more suspicious. Yet I would like to say - don't be too hasty, hum hom, because it is also possible that an innocent under pressure (as Nerwen surely is) may start to behave suspiciously. So, I would advise being careful.

Also let me say Rikae's vote yesterDay made me a little wary of her. I don't have any strong suspicion about her, yet she convinently joined the Valier bandwagon at the crucial point and the way she voted, during her quick appearance, moved her to the orange zone for me.

Okay, so I guess that's the main things I had in mind now, will be back later hopefully with some conclusions.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

One word about Nerwen. She looked innocent to me at the beginning, but given her votes and discussions with people, like with Valier and Kath yesterDay she starts to seem more and more suspicious. Yet I would like to say - don't be too hasty, hum hom, because it is also possible that an innocent under pressure (as Nerwen surely is) may start to behave suspiciously. So, I would advise being careful.

Legate, what can I say? I've had to face continual attacks, many of them on grounds I consider very strange (look at the reasons people gave for voting me on Day One). It's getting frustrating– I'd have liked to be able to contribute more to this game, but as it is I've had to spend most of my efforts on just staying alive.

[Nerwen]

I have to go now, so here's my vote:

++Mormegil

For reasons I've already stated.

Given the way Morm reacts to people who even disagree with him, I'm sure he'll do his best to get me lynched in retaliation, but I don't really care. After a careful read through all his posts, I think there’s a very high likelihood that he’s a wolf. Nobody else looks half as furry to me.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I have to go now, so here's my vote:

++Mormegil

For reasons I've already stated.

Given the way Morm reacts to people who even disagree with him, I'm sure he'll do his best to get me lynched in retaliation, but I don't really care. After a careful read through all his posts, I think there’s a very high likelihood that he’s a wolf. Nobody else looks half as furry to me.

I don't get you Nerwen. One of the 'reasons' you think I'm a wolf is that I cast random accusations around in my first post? And then when you question me on it I respond that it is normal to do so and that's suspicious too? I don't believe I am jumpy at all, I think you overreact to quite a bit and that makes you rather jumpy.

I believe I suspected you well before you suspected me and yet you claim that I suspect those who suspect me...it would appear that you have it the wrong way and you suspect those that suspect you.

Your reasons are incredibly weak and you obviously are grasping at straws here Nerwen.

I stand corrected about morm...I am way off track with him; he is not a wolf. Sorry bout that, I got carried away, and thought I was onto something when I wasn't.

Ummm, okay. I agree with you that you are way off track and got carried away but I'd like to know why you suddenly changed your mind as this 180 degree turn is sudden and unexpected I think it would be wise to answer why you think that now after such a vehement attack against me.

[Boromir88]

I stand corrected about morm...I am way off track with him; he is not a wolf. Sorry bout that, I got carried away, and thought I was onto something when I wasn't.

I think it's time for me to take a serious look at Aganzir, Nerwen, and The Might.

[Nerwen]

Boromir, Morm is my top suspect and I just voted him. If you have a compelling reason why he isn't a wolf, I'm ready to listen (I have qualms about lynching innocents)– but please explain.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by mormegil

I believe I suspected you well before you suspected me and yet you claim that I suspect those who suspect me...

Actually, you're right. To clarify things: I didn't particularly suspect you when I first criticized some of the things you'd said.

Then you immediately added me to your suspect-list– to punish me. (You gave no other reason, Morm.)

So yes, technically you did claim to suspect me before I suspected you. I don't think that looks any better for you, Morm.

And I don't think my arguments are weak at all. You haven't really tried to answer them.

Still, I'm waiting to hear what Boro has to say.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Eomer

But if we consider it very likely that Valier did not choose to kill Azaelia, can we then suppose that Valier's top suspect is therefore not a wolf?

But who was her top suspect? Nerwen, I, someone other?

**

Originally Posted by Mac

All I remember is the possibility of Nog and me being wolves and a few far-fetched interpretations.

I'm not particularly sure what you mean with these "far-fetched interpretations", but I don't think suspecting that two fellow wolves would have acted as Nog and you on Day 1 is far-fetched. The reason why I think so & noticed it so early: stupid or not, I've been thinking for a while that it would be an interesting thing to try when I'm a wolf next time, and thus I don't believe it's something wolves wouldn't do.

As for Isabell, first I was surprised to see someone who had mentioned me once was considering voting for me. Then I was annoyed, as she seemed to be basing her suspicions on things I had already explained and thought were clear enough.

About half of the village found Valier's reasoning for her vote for me quite weak, as it was, and I'm curious to know how you can think it's a valid point against me. She's known to have hunches, true, but she can be wrong as well. You seem to be grasping at straws now.

Originally Posted by Mac

Aganzir for Mac - yes, she goes along with her suspicion, but what she ultimately does is to throw her vote away.

I see no sense in voting someone I think is innocent; ie. everybody who had gathered votes yesterday.

**

My case against Mac, as requested.

From his very first post, he suspects Nogrod. Nothing wrong with that, but the way he does it... It looks as if it had been decided beforehand. Mac looks like he's trying so hard to find something in Nog's posts to base suspicion on.
They also seemed to be too sure of each other's wolvishness. And they both are a bit too... straightforward, rude?

My guess why the plot went bad: as the whole thing had been decided in advance, Mac wasn't careful enough to make his points against Nog better from the very beginning; he knows he's a valuable player for whichever team he's in and didn't believe fellow-Nog would try to get him lynched this early even though Nog sometimes does that with his fellows. He didn't expect Noggie would be accusing him seriously...

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Generally it makes me wonder why such a bright player like Mac had nothing to say at that point of the game but to bring forwards all this "out of thin air nothing" about my posts. I mean yes I might be mistaken as when some people just jump on you with this kind of nonsense you tend to feel they are wolves trying to get you. But at this point it's my best explanation to Mac's behaviour.

Originally Posted by Spm

Firstly, Nogrod. Mainly, it is his reaction to Mac’s original points against him. They seemed quite mildly expressed to me. Yet Nogrod’s reaction against them (especially in #113) look to br wholly over the top.

No wonder if they had decided to suspect each other.

I'm not going to repeat here what I said in my post #229.

Last but not least, the Mac-Saucie argument. Mac seems to be deliberately misinterpreting what Saucie has said, and I don't like that. Besides, he seems to be very quick to suspect those who have suspected him, except for Rikae (hoping he could still convince her of his innocence?).

I can't think Mac is anything but a wolf. He's usually too good to leave any obvious tracks, but I believe his and Nog's dispute is such, and it shouldn't be overlooked just because it hasn't happened earlier.

edit: xed since #298

[Nerwen]

Aganzir, as I've stated before, I've had doubts about Mac since Day One. The Mac-Nogrod business struck a number of people as contrived, and I find his counter-attacks on people who suspect him pretty weak.

...On the other, what if he did indeed make a lucky guess about Nogrod– and we lynch him for his pains?

I'm still waiting to hear why Boromir88 has suddenly decided Mormegil is innocent.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

...On the other, what if he did indeed make a lucky guess about Nogrod– and we lynch him for his pains?

I know it is possible, but his behaviour makes me think otherwise. And if they had this plot with Noggie, it was definitely a part of it to make us think Mac was just skilled and really caught a wolf.

And agh, I know I shouldn't be concentrating only on him. I'm leaving soon but when I'm back I guess I'm going to do some reading and try to come up with something about others, too.

[mormegil]

(I just got home and haven't read much since my last post...I work a graveyard shift Friday nights and I'm extremely tired so reading is pointless at this moment...hopefully I'm lucid now as I type...anyway I'm going to bed and will hopefully be back in time but if not)

++Nerwen

I really feel she is a wolf and feel I have made some fairly valid points against her. I don't have time or the sense right now to rehash those points.

I think it wise if somebody else have an objective look at The Might. I find him 'mighty' suspicious now and think an extra set of eyes would be helpful.

[Nerwen]

Boro, I've read Eomer's last post, and I don't get it. Maybe I'm dead from the neck up, as the man said, but I can't even see what it has to do with Mormegil at all.

Please. I really don't want to lynch him if he's innocent.

[Boromir88]

Can you explain this a bit more clearly, Boro? I swear I'll take my vote back if you can convince me Morm is innocent.~Nerwen

The truth lies with the cradle crafter and the tree trimmer...can you tell I've recently watched National Treasure?

Ok, so onto Aganzir and the Might. I'm kind of mixed on Agan. On one hand I'm trusting the judgement of someone's who's judgement I trust more than my own, at the moment. Yet, I think he's said some very valuable, helpful, information thoughout the time here. Also, I'm not sold yet that there was a wolf in the Nogrod voters...if there was I would guess it would be Legate. As witness Nogrod's wolfish behaviors before, I can imagine sacrificing himself and telling buddy Legate to vote for him...casting a "crucial vote" against him. It was Agan who cast the go ahead vote, but there was a cross post and Legate says he was in the mindset that he was casting the deciding vote to put Nogrod into the lead.

What particularly makes me feel that Agan is innocent is just some helpful comments like this:

Has no one really considered the possibility that Boro was merely trying us with his vote? At least to me it seems quite possible.

At the time when several people were coming along saying my sudden vote for Kath was suspicious, he says that. I would have expected a wolf-Agan to jump right along and continue with it. Agan and I have been in several villages, and as he has seen, when there are retractable votes, I like to have fun with using them. I figure, they are there for us, might as well put them to good use and try to get some info out of 'em.

And what she said about Kath on Day 1:

Now this may be grasping at straws, but that "I'm not defending Mac" caught my eye. It just looks like she's trying to make sure that everybody realise she's not on the same side with Mac if one of them is lynched and revealed to be a wolf.

And Day 2 with regard to Mac:

This is not something an innocent says. If Mac thinks Noggie is a wolf, why on earth does he tell others to listen to him? He's saying "Even though I think Noggie is a wolf, I hope you others won't do that. Don't pay too much attention to my opinions, I can be wrong as well."
I can't put my finger on it any better, but it was something I didn't like even when I read it on Day 1. With Nogwolf dead, it makes me feel only worse about Mac.

I think Agan has reached the wrong conclusion about Mac, but I found that comment by Mac awkward as well, and it was a good spot on Agan's part. I take it as Mac made a statement that was just something he shouldn't have said...nevertheless it was still the statement of an innocent. It's just as hard to survive as an ordinary as it is a wolf. Everyone has to watch what they say, if an innocent for whatever reason, doesn't want to end up dead, he/she has to edit themselves...just as a wolf would.

So, on one hand, Agan looks like an innocent who has reached the wrong conclusion on another innocent. Yet, has been a helpful, willing to contribute person...who after all did cast a crucial vote against a known wolf. On the other hand, I can't shake the feeling that one of the deciding votes cast for Nogrod (either Agan or Legate) is that of a wolf, because of knowing how wolf-Nogrod likes to sacrifice his partners (or himself) to make another look good.

See, I told you Kath, this is what happens when I think too much. It was so much easier for me to be a stubborn pig headed lunatic...at least that way I could reach a decision. But I'm gaining more and more distrust with Nerwen.

edit: crossed with Nerwen and Eomer...and I'll get to the Might when I have more time...I have to go now.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Boro

So, on one hand, Agan looks like an innocent who has reached the wrong conclusion on another innocent. Yet, has been a helpful, willing to contribute person...who after all did cast a crucial vote against a known wolf. On the other hand, I can't shake the feeling that one of the deciding votes cast for Nogrod (either Agan or Legate) is that of a wolf, because of knowing how wolf-Nogrod likes to sacrifice his partners (or himself) to make another look good.

I would say if there was a wolf among the Nog voters, then it was Agan. All we saw points towards that and, that is not to be forgotten, Agan is a very, very clever wolf and the more innocent she looks, the more I am wary of her.

Anyway, I wanted to point out one thing, or rather remind us of it - even though I am currently inclined to believe there was indeed some sort of a plan, there is still the possibility that Nog's death was not planned and the wolves simply failed to save him. Because the Wolves can PM each other, but they can't do that in no time. They have to open PM box, write, send, the other has to be there and refresh the page to notice he has new PM, open it, read it, and then act or even reply once again. This way it could be even possible that both Boro and Eomer are wolves, for example - and they did not have to coordinate how to save Nogrod. In other words, as we are going, let's not forget even the possibility that the death was really an unpredicted loss from the wolves' part.