Hurin and despair - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Morwen Tindomerel · 05-13-2003, 09:29 PM

You are forgetting the freedom of Men. Men are masters of their own fates and - in a certain ultimate sense more powerful than any Valar including the Dark Lord himself for Men can change the Music and alter the plans laid by the powers.

Turin signally fails to do this. The 'Master of Fate' *never* takes control of his destiny but lets himself be blown hither and thither by Morgoth's malice and his own passions. The most fatal of his errors is to listen to the deceptions of Glaurung and ignore the prophesy of his friend and benefactor Gwindor.

Dying Gwindor commands Turin to make amends for his role in the destruction of Nargothrond by saving Finduilas. Who, he predicts, will save Turin from his doom. And so she might have.

*Had* Turin followed duty and friendship instead of fear and suspicion and successfully rescued the princess and her fellow captives he would, naturally, have taken them to Doriath where he would have found his mother and sister safe and sound. And where, chastened and relieved, he might finally have been willing to acknowledge his errors and accept Melian's advice.

Hurin too lets his passions run away with him giving Morgoth's malice free reign. *BUT* unlike his son is capable of hearing reason and controlling himself. As I argue above had Manthor been able to complete his conversation with Hurin matters in Brethil would have turned out quite differently.

This is why I tend to accept Christopher's conclusion. If Hurin could be brought back to reason by Manthor how could Melian possibly fail? Nor do I believe he would then fall into suicidal despair.

No doubt he would bitterly regret his actions under the Shadow but he might well follow Manthor's advice and find some isolated place to live out the remainder of his days without bringing his curse on any one else or further bitterness on himself.

05-13-2003, 09:29 PM	#11
Morwen Tindomerel Wight Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Minas Anor or Annuminas the Golden Posts: 187	You are forgetting the freedom of Men. Men are masters of their own fates and - in a certain ultimate sense more powerful than any Valar including the Dark Lord himself for Men can change the Music and alter the plans laid by the powers. Turin signally fails to do this. The 'Master of Fate' never takes control of his destiny but lets himself be blown hither and thither by Morgoth's malice and his own passions. The most fatal of his errors is to listen to the deceptions of Glaurung and ignore the prophesy of his friend and benefactor Gwindor. Dying Gwindor commands Turin to make amends for his role in the destruction of Nargothrond by saving Finduilas. Who, he predicts, will save Turin from his doom. And so she might have. Had Turin followed duty and friendship instead of fear and suspicion and successfully rescued the princess and her fellow captives he would, naturally, have taken them to Doriath where he would have found his mother and sister safe and sound. And where, chastened and relieved, he might finally have been willing to acknowledge his errors and accept Melian's advice. Hurin too lets his passions run away with him giving Morgoth's malice free reign. BUT unlike his son is capable of hearing reason and controlling himself. As I argue above had Manthor been able to complete his conversation with Hurin matters in Brethil would have turned out quite differently. This is why I tend to accept Christopher's conclusion. If Hurin could be brought back to reason by Manthor how could Melian possibly fail? Nor do I believe he would then fall into suicidal despair. No doubt he would bitterly regret his actions under the Shadow but he might well follow Manthor's advice and find some isolated place to live out the remainder of his days without bringing his curse on any one else or further bitterness on himself.