True Hero: Frodo or Samwise?

[Laurinquë]

Samwise, no question.

[obloquy]

Originally Posted by Laurinquë

Samwise, no question.

Great arguments.

[Eönwë]

Samwise is the hero, i think.

And I don't think he is properly portrayed in the movies.

He is the first one to kill an Orc (but does get wounded, which just shows how much he had to suffer). He, when Frodo was failing against shelob, fought her. I don't think this is fully appreciated bu most people. Shelob is a descendant of Ungoliant, who along with Melkor, destroyed THE TREES. Imagine how powerful even Shelob was. I know sam didn't kill her, but still, I don't think even Aragorn with his manliness could do any better. And with the light of Earendil, all Frodo comes up with is "Aiya Earendil Elenion Ancalima" wherreas sam starts singing

A Elbereth Gilthoniel
o menel palan-diriel,
le nallon si di'nguruthos!
A tiro nin, Fanuilos!

And he doesn't know what this means, but maybe Elbereth (Varda) did help. And it was probably Eru-inspired, so obviously he was favoured, and for a reason.
Sam stuck by Frodo, until the end, until the fires of Mount Doom, and boe the ring himself for a while. He saved Frodo and helped him through the Plains of Gorgoroth in the Land of Shadow then when Frodo collapsed, he carried Frodo up the Mountain of Doom. If this is not heroism, what is. Sam is the bilbo of LOTR because he starts off normal and simple and happy, and then becomes a hero.

In the movie they make Frodo seem more pure and kind, but also make him seem weaker. In the book he is much coarser, and for example orders people about, and thinks that he is the most important (though no doubt he is), whereas Sam has a more heroic modesty, and stays calm, and while he'se in cirith ungol, kills a few orcs.

Sam is a warrior, and a comforter, and a servant, at the same time, and near the end Frodo realises how much he needs Sam.

You know the saying, "Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them" Sam is a mix of the last wo, whereas Frodo is definitely the first, destined to be a ringbearer. Sam had the greatness forced on him, but he achieved his mission, and become a hero.

I think it is trying to say that heros are not perfect, but if you stick to your goal then you can achieve it.

Or maybe: To achieve the high goal there must be sacrifices

[McCaber]

I agree with the points stated earlier that there is no one chief hero in LotR. The book begins with a focus on Frodo, with Sam one of the supporting cast. But over the length of the story Frodo grows more distant as Sam becomes more personal.

I would say that Frodo is a more heroic figure, because he was asked to do much more than Samwise. Frodo was given the impossible task of destroying the Ring, while Sam's duty was to support Frodo. Without each of them, the other would have failed.

That's my standpoint on it.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by McCaber

Frodo was given the impossible task of destroying the Ring, while Sam's duty was to support Frodo. Without each of them, the other would have failed.

Yes, they do seem to support each other, and rescued each other from death, so they are both as important, but I think Sam was more heroic, because he had a choice, and he chose to help, whereas Frodo was destined to be ringbearer, so he (in reality) had to, whatever anyone says about his choice in the matter.

[obloquy]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Yes, they do seem to support each other, and rescued each other from death, so they are both as important, but I think Sam was more heroic, because he had a choice, and he chose to help, whereas Frodo was destined to be ringbearer, so he (in reality) had to, whatever anyone says about his choice in the matter.

Are you saying that Frodo had a destiny from which he could not deviate, but Sam essentially had no destiny? That Frodo was bound by his destiny to be the Ringbearer, but it was not Sam's intractable destiny to accompany Frodo? Why would this idea of predestination only affect Frodo's free will and not Sam's?

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Somewhere in Letters Tolkien points out that the great moment of Frodo's heroism was at the Council, where he said "I will take the Ring," and compares it to Mary at the Annunciation. Frodo perhaps was *meant * to have the Ring, but he was not *mandated* to take it. Elrond understood this, and therefore ranked Frodo with the greatest heroes of the Elder Days simply for shouldering the burden, with no guarantee, or even likelihood, of success.

[Galendor]

Both Frodo and Sam are "heroic" characters, but in my thinking Frodo is meant to be the main "hero" - because he chose to be the Ring bearer, and suffered greatly and permanently from this immense burden.

I see Sam more as the "everyman" character - a type of character that the reader can more relate to, in terms of motivations and reactions.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Galendor

I see Sam more as the "everyman" character - a type of character that the reader can more relate to, in terms of motivations and reactions.

Really? I won't generalize this one. Personally, when reading, I always could easier relate myself to Frodo than to Sam. So I would say this depends.

[Lotrelf]

Originally Posted by obloquy

Are you saying that Frodo had a destiny from which he could not deviate, but Sam essentially had no destiny? That Frodo was bound by his destiny to be the Ringbearer, but it was not Sam's intractable destiny to accompany Frodo? Why would this idea of predestination only affect Frodo's free will and not Sam's?

That's been my question as well too all those who think Frodo was predestined to carry the Ring. Why was the Will of the Higher Power affecting only Frodo and not Sam? Be it Eru's or Valar's decision for Frodo's finding the Ring, carrying the Ring seems his own *free will*.