Suggestions for the Hobbit script? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

William Cloud Hicklin · 12-19-2007, 12:08 PM

And if Tolkien himself couldn't pull it off, how could anyone else?

Aganzir · 12-20-2007, 06:40 AM

Good points, William Cloud Hickli & Lalwendë.

I like the Hobbit the way it is, but I've always felt some kind of distance to it- how it portrays the elves, for example. As I don't wait much from the movie anyway, I'm curious to see what they could do to the elves. I find this actually a bit strange, as in the Lotr films I practically hated everything they had changed / tried to make better.

Though it will surely be interesting to see how all those movie elf fans, many of whom haven't read the books, react if the elves suddenly change from something like Bloom-Legolas & Tyler-Arwen to those funny, cheerful creatures as in the Hobbit.

Sauron the White · 12-20-2007, 07:31 AM

I would agree that JRRT knew his work better than anyone else. His work was writing about Middle-earth. But then I read this from Mr. Hicklin

Quote:

And if Tolkien himself couldn't pull it off, how could anyone else?

Are we saying that JRRT was beyond the powers of every other individual who lived in that regard? In the past I have criticized some here who seem to take an almost reverential attitutde or religious fervor regarding JRRT - and now this seems to partially support that suspicion.

Is it possible that someone could improve upon JRRT works? Yes. He was a man - a human being. He was not one of his gods.

Lalwendë · 12-20-2007, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

Are we saying that JRRT was beyond the powers of every other individual who lived in that regard? In the past I have criticized some here who seem to take an almost reverential attitutde or religious fervor regarding JRRT - and now this seems to partially support that suspicion.

Is it possible that someone could improve upon JRRT works? Yes. He was a man - a human being. He was not one of his gods.

Well no, he was not 'one of his gods', he was The God of all of his creation because it wouldn't have existed without him

Anything at all, whatsoever, to do with Middle-earth cannot exist without him having dreamt it up and written it down. It is logically impossible that anything to do with it could be done better by anyone else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I like the Hobbit the way it is, but I've always felt some kind of distance to it- how it portrays the elves, for example. As I don't wait much from the movie anyway, I'm curious to see what they could do to the elves. I find this actually a bit strange, as in the Lotr films I practically hated everything they had changed / tried to make better.

Though it will surely be interesting to see how all those movie elf fans, many of whom haven't read the books, react if the elves suddenly change from something like Bloom-Legolas & Tyler-Arwen to those funny, cheerful creatures as in the Hobbit.

I'd feel disappointed if they tried to do po-faced Rings/Sil style Elves instead of the lovely yet quite dangerous creatures we see in The Hobbit. These, of all Tolkien's portrayals of Elves, come closest to Faerie...mysterious creatures who live amongst the trees in the dark forest and singing, joyful mountain Elves. Much more fun, more scary, and more interesting, than the Noldorin types to my mind

Elladan and Elrohir · 12-20-2007, 05:22 PM

Think carefully before saying something is "logically impossible"; that's a rather large phrase...

I think with film, most of the rules that worked in books go out the window. Tolkien couldn't have done a darker Hobbit and made it halfway good; to me it doesn't impugn the great JRRT's legacy one bit to say that perhaps a filmmaker can.

Aiwendil · 12-20-2007, 09:06 PM

It ought to be noted that Tolkien's abortive 1960 revision was not intended to produce a 'darker' Hobbit. It was intended to make the book as consistent as possible with all that is said in LotR. The issue that Tolkien spilt the most ink on in connection with this revision was - not the tra-la-laling Elves, not the White Council and the Necromancer - but the phases of the moon. I doubt that this will be the foremost issue in the screenwriters' minds. In any case, Tolkien didn't know, and wouldn't have cared, that so-called 'dark' things would become cool.

12-19-2007, 12:08 PM	#1
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	And if Tolkien himself couldn't pull it off, how could anyone else? __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

12-20-2007, 06:40 AM	#2
Aganzir Woman of Secret Shadow Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: in hollow halls beneath the fells Posts: 4,511	Good points, William Cloud Hickli & Lalwendë. I like the Hobbit the way it is, but I've always felt some kind of distance to it- how it portrays the elves, for example. As I don't wait much from the movie anyway, I'm curious to see what they could do to the elves. I find this actually a bit strange, as in the Lotr films I practically hated everything they had changed / tried to make better. Though it will surely be interesting to see how all those movie elf fans, many of whom haven't read the books, react if the elves suddenly change from something like Bloom-Legolas & Tyler-Arwen to those funny, cheerful creatures as in the Hobbit. __________________ He bit me, and I was not gentle.

12-20-2007, 05:22 PM	#5
Elladan and Elrohir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Halls of Mandos Posts: 332	Think carefully before saying something is "logically impossible"; that's a rather large phrase... I think with film, most of the rules that worked in books go out the window. Tolkien couldn't have done a darker Hobbit and made it halfway good; to me it doesn't impugn the great JRRT's legacy one bit to say that perhaps a filmmaker can. __________________ "If you're referring to the incident with the dragon, I was barely involved. All I did was give your uncle a little nudge out of the door." THE HOBBIT - IT'S COMING

12-20-2007, 09:06 PM	#6
Aiwendil Late Istar Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,224	It ought to be noted that Tolkien's abortive 1960 revision was not intended to produce a 'darker' Hobbit. It was intended to make the book as consistent as possible with all that is said in LotR. The issue that Tolkien spilt the most ink on in connection with this revision was - not the tra-la-laling Elves, not the White Council and the Necromancer - but the phases of the moon. I doubt that this will be the foremost issue in the screenwriters' minds. In any case, Tolkien didn't know, and wouldn't have cared, that so-called 'dark' things would become cool.