Pj To Produce The Hobbit!

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

See, there you go. Making authoritave statements when there clearly is a difference of opinion about what even constitutes "SIlmarillion material". I would remind you that the word Silmarallion was used by JRRT in the Appendicies to LOTR where he described many events of the First and Second Ages. That material from LOTR is owned as film rights by Saul Zaentz and New Line Cinema.

And yet some people think there is nothing to work out? Please.

The rights to The Lord of the Rings (including the appendices) and The Hobbit are separate from the rights to The Silmarillion. [By which I mean the book published under that title in 1977, okay?]

That doesn't mean that New Line won't try and get permission to use material from The Silmarillion in their upcoming movies– but that has nothing to do with the use of the word "Silmarillion" in Appendix A of The Lord of the Rings.

When people talk about The Silmarillion, they are, by default, talking about the published book, not the synopses of some of the events included in Appendix A. (Anyway, Tolkien didn't call Appendix A The Silmarillion, either.)

Surely you understand the difference?

[Sauron the White]

Nerwen ... yes, I do understand the difference. Yes, I do understand what constitutes the book length SILMARALLION. Yes, I do understand the material found in the Appendicies in which Tolkien uses the term Silmarallion. And yes, I do understand that there is a good deal of overlap between the two. And there is the rub.

[Nerwen]

To quote myself (in the First and Second Age Film Rights thread)

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Are you suggesting that lawyers for Tolkien Estate might claim anything which is treated in both The Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion violates the copyright on the latter? I don't think they'd get very far.

[Thenamir]

My vote for the voice of Smaug: Michael Dorn -- give him a proper British accent and rough up the edges of that voice (Lt. Worf on Star Trek, for those not in-the-know), and it could be smooth and mysterious riddling with Bilbo, and wild and dangerous attacking Lake-Town. James Earl Jones is already too many great voices, Sean Connery has already voiced a dragon (Dragonheart), John Rhys-Davies is both Gimli and Treebeard, and Christopher Lee has already been marked in my mind as Saruman.

But please, please, don't get someone like the voice artist, whoever he was, who did Smaug in the Rankin-Bass version. (Aptly named -- "rank" means stinking, and "bass" is a fish.) That was simply dreadful.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Are you suggesting that lawyers for Tolkien Estate might claim anything which is treated in both The Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion violates the copyright on the latter? I don't think they'd get very far.

Of course not. If it's in the Appendices, they've got it (presumably- there might be an exemption clause in the contract, but we can't know that). The issue is the rather astonishing claim that all the First and Second age material Tolkien ever wrote is somehow 'incorporated by reference' into the Appendices.

[Sauron the White]

from WCH

The issue is the rather astonishing claim that all the First and Second age material Tolkien ever wrote is somehow 'incorporated by reference' into the Appendices.

Could be please cite the quote where anyone made that "rather astonishing claim"? And I would like the exact quote not some rehash, a retelling , a paraphrasing, a translation, an "its the same thing as...", or "it sounded like to me that ...".

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Then, to avoid any futher accusations of 'strawman' or 'twisting', will you please, Sauron, make a succinct statement of why you think New Line has a right or a claim of a right to Silmarillion material?

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Thenamir

My vote for the voice of Smaug: Michael Dorn -- give him a proper British accent and rough up the edges of that voice (Lt. Worf on Star Trek, for those not in-the-know), and it could be smooth and mysterious riddling with Bilbo, and wild and dangerous attacking Lake-Town. James Earl Jones is already too many great voices, Sean Connery has already voiced a dragon (Dragonheart), John Rhys-Davies is both Gimli and Treebeard, and Christopher Lee has already been marked in my mind as Saruman.

But please, please, don't get someone like the voice artist, whoever he was, who did Smaug in the Rankin-Bass version. (Aptly named -- "rank" means stinking, and "bass" is a fish.) That was simply dreadful.

It has to be someone who is known for pulling off sarcasm. Now there's a whole lot of people good at that around right now, unfortunately most of them presenters, which rules out say Charlie Brooker or the Top Gear team (as highly amusing and inappropriate as it would be to have Jeremy Clarkson voice Smaug... ), but one or two actors remain. Maybe Richard Wilson or Bill Nighy? David Tennant?

[Thenamir]

I, as you, would love to see David Tennant in almost anything (was rather surprised, in re-watching HP & The Goblet of Fire, to see Tennant there as Barty Crouch Jr.), but you'd have to do some digital magic to his voice in order for his high-tenor to sound serious and resonant enough for a lumbering giant of a man-bear.

[Lalwendë]

He could voice Smaug though (sorry - wasn't clear there!) as there's nothing to say that a Dragon has to have a deep, manly voice. He can 'do serious and scary' very well though as shown in the past series of Doctor Who. Speaking of which, John Barrowman would make a fabulous Elf!