The Ultimate Discourse About Gildor

[William Cloud Hicklin]

But, again, how would you interpret Erchamion? 'Son of the empty hand?' I don't think so. Sounds agental to me.

I don't think Inglor was published in the LR- but Finrod (=Finarfin) was.

[Galin]

But I have no reason to think that 'One-hand' is the name of some Man that could be Beren's father, and Beren himself becomes 'One-handed'.

Yes, I agree we could wriggle (as I say, even try a place-name). If we didn't know, Arathornion might not mean 'Son of Arathorn' technically, but it would likely be my prime choice for 'Aragorn Arathornion' if I had an idea that Arathorn was one of the West-men.

Point taken that it's not the only possibility. I would agree with that; it never was really, but the patronymic got and gets my vote if I had to choose.

[Nerwen]

Hmmn. I don't think we can resolve this question.

I still think Inglorion is most likely a patronymic (for the reasons Galin stated). Maybe Tolkien intended to have Gildor to play a more important part in the story than he ending up doing. Then later he saw no need to correct the name, because "Inglor" was no longer Felagund and "the House of Finrod" need not (I think) imply a blood-relationship.

[Galin]

I would agree Nerwen that perhaps Tolkien saw no great problem from a revised context point of view. I do think 'House of Finrod' implies family ties. In the entry for root NÔ- from Etymologies:

noss clan, family, 'house', as Nos Finrod House of Finrod.

In PE17 NO- is still a root for 'generation, people, folk, large group regarded as of common ancestry.' It seems possible that Nos Finrod was used by some in Middle-earth for (essentially) Nos Finarfin, considering that Finarfin stayed in the West.

Since I'm in Etymologies, under root ID-

'Q. indo heart, mood; cf. Indlour, Inglor (Indo-klár or Indo-glauré). N. inn, ind inner thought, meaning, heart.'

Inglor could mean 'gold-heart' according to this -- or 'splendour-heart' 'N. poetical claur splendour, glory -- often in names in form -glor' (Etymologies KAL-), and thus possibly 'gold-hearted' with Inglorion.

Though again there seems to be a later interpretation that fits with the linguistic history landed on for The Lord of the Rings (meaning Inglor as a Sindarization of Ingalaure). In PE17 indo appears, seemingly 'mind, region/range of thought, mood' from IN-I-D 'mind, inner thought'

[William Cloud Hicklin]

whereas in late writing 'heart, mood" is Ore.

[Galin]

It seems that at the time of writing The Lord of the Rings (or at least in the time 'surrounding' this general period) Inglor Felagund had a wife and children, and in notes to the QS manuscript even Gil-galad was his son. In early workings of Of The Rings of Power And The Third Age Galadriel was a daughter of Felagund the fair (and the elder sister of Gil-galad).

The conception that Inglor had no wife arose in the early 1950s in any event, in The Grey Annals. Even after this statement in GA, Tolkien, perhaps mistakenly, gave Felagund a son, Artanaro Rhodothir ('Orodreth'), but then noted that Finrod 'had no child (he left his wife in Aman)'. And in an isolated note dated 1965: 'Finrod left his wife in Valinor and had no children in Exile.'

I don't think Tolkien had even printed the name Inglor* (as a name of Felagund) in the first edition, and so readers would not think of Gildor as Inglor Felagund's son even in the 1950s. It's really a case of readers being shown (by CJRT) certain draft texts, otherwise Gildor as the son of (some Elf) named Inglor is not problematic.


Galadriel55's post in 'Ever wonder...' inspired me to come back to this.

Thus one a side note I'll add: not that Galadriel55 said otherwise, but Fingon does not really mean 'Lord of Hair' as I take the explanation. As a Sindarin name it might be interpreted 'Hair-shout', as JRRT notes in the essay (the word cáno meant 'commander' in Quenya), but even the Quenya name Findecáno didn't really mean 'Hair-commander' as much as it was the word 'commander' with fin(de) added on -- as an echo of an ancestral name -- 'and if this was also specially applicable it would have been approved as a good invention.'

And it was suitable for Fingon, since he wore his long dark hair in great plaits braided with gold. In short, the 'meaning' of the name elements together is not really the point with respect to Fingon... if one is wondering why such a odd seeming name exists that is.



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*even if he had, there could be more than one Elf named Inglor, just as there seems to be more than one Elf named Rumil in The Lord of the Rings.

[Man-of-the-Wold]

This was rather beside the point when I started this thread eight years ago, about whether Gildor was negligent or prescient in how he helped Frodo, and that his assistance was a great deal more than met the idea and critical to the story, but no, Gildor is not a decedent of Finwe. Don't be silly. Aside from the Line of Elros, only Elrond, Galadriel and their children have such lineage in Middle-Earth. That Gildor was of high rank among the people of that House is indisputable. As for the other elves in his wandering company, I think it is fair to say that whatever he said or did, it was in keeping with the other members, who were no more or less selfish than he, but there is still the practical point of their being a probably not well-armed group of elven people.