Awaken or born by Cuiviénen? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

William Cloud Hicklin · 12-01-2007, 01:00 PM

Yes, but.

For Tolkien as a philologist and medievalist, the 'consistency of reality' *included* uncertainties, confusions, garbled traditions, mysteries, enigmas, and a general observation that reality is messy. He was very aware that real history has, and thus feigned history should have, a lot of 'maybes.' Hence for example The Downfall of Anadune, as a garbled and inaccurate tradition; and his deliberate refusal to 'explain' Bombadil or reconcile him with the rest of the legendarium.

Galin · 12-02-2007, 07:30 PM

And I am not denying an 'awakening' of the Elves in any event, nor do I think Tolkien was by writing the Cuivienyarna, but rather I'm merely proposing that the nature of the tale might cast doubt on certain details within itself.

The topic was raised with specific respect to Ingwe, Finwe, Elwe: if the Child's tale contains the 'truth' that each Elf awoke with a spouse, then there follows a line of argument that these Elves are not of the Eru-begotten.

But the existence of a fairy tale which involves the Awakening of the Elves in no way need 'replace' the account of the same event in The Annals or Quenta Silmarillion, or some other account.

12-01-2007, 01:00 PM	#1
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	Yes, but. For Tolkien as a philologist and medievalist, the 'consistency of reality' included uncertainties, confusions, garbled traditions, mysteries, enigmas, and a general observation that reality is messy. He was very aware that real history has, and thus feigned history should have, a lot of 'maybes.' Hence for example The Downfall of Anadune, as a garbled and inaccurate tradition; and his deliberate refusal to 'explain' Bombadil or reconcile him with the rest of the legendarium. __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

12-02-2007, 07:30 PM	#2
Galin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,036	And I am not denying an 'awakening' of the Elves in any event, nor do I think Tolkien was by writing the Cuivienyarna, but rather I'm merely proposing that the nature of the tale might cast doubt on certain details within itself. The topic was raised with specific respect to Ingwe, Finwe, Elwe: if the Child's tale contains the 'truth' that each Elf awoke with a spouse, then there follows a line of argument that these Elves are not of the Eru-begotten. But the existence of a fairy tale which involves the Awakening of the Elves in no way need 'replace' the account of the same event in The Annals or Quenta Silmarillion, or some other account.