Lurtz? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Sauron the White · 11-30-2007, 08:50 AM

It would be good to remember that the character identified as LURTZ is not so named in the films. He is nameless and is only the field commander of a group of Uruks dispatched by Saruman from Isengard. This is consistent with the books in many ways.

Sir Kohran · 11-30-2007, 12:21 PM

Good heavens, this thread is indeed old

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

It would be good to remember that the character identified as LURTZ is not so named in the films. He is nameless and is only the field commander of a group of Uruks dispatched by Saruman from Isengard. This is consistent with the books in many ways.

And besides, many brutal Orc and Uruk leaders are named throughout the story and I don't think Lurtz is out of place.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 11-30-2007, 12:32 PM

*Note in forward. This post is one of a movie-hater, if such a strong word as "hate" can be used, let's say rather a movie-disliker, whatever the case, in such light you have to look at it*

Lurtz sounds like a German name, not like an Orcish one.

And I really don't understand why he is there and not Uglúk, who was a very, very strong character in the books, and he is reduced to a silly, to use Sir Kohran's words, "one of the many brutal Uruk leaders" with almost no lines in the movie.

I understand they probably wanted Aragorn to chop this Uruk's head off. But then in the books, Éomer dismounts to duel (!) with Uglúk, and had they left Uglúk kill Boromir and then run away, I think the effect in the movie would have been even better: you will have a real baddie whom the audience awaits to be killed, Aragorn&folks pursuing the Uruk-hai would have created another expectations in the audience, and the duel with Éomer will raise both him and Uglúk even more in the eyes of the audience. No, I don't fancy any lurtzes (and why isn't he named at least like an Orc?).

alatar · 11-30-2007, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

*Note in forward. This post is one of a movie-hater, if such a strong word as "hate" can be used, let's say rather a movie-disliker, whatever the case, in such light you have to look at it*

I think that you have it. Uglúk had to live that he might die another day (and lop off some heads in the interim), and so you couldn't have the Big U die at Parth Galen, as that would not be faithful to the books (and Jackson would never do that). How conclusive the end of FotR would be without the Lurtz-Aragorn duel, we'll never know. Seems like it worked for many, and note that even in FotR we had to start moving Aragorn towards kingship, and nothing says, "King" like a good head chopping.

And why Lurtz? Simple. "Mickey Mouse" and "Manbearpig" were already taken.

Sauron the White · 11-30-2007, 01:25 PM

from Legate

Quote:

Lurtz sounds like a German name, not like an Orcish one

Does not Lugburz also sound German? That is the name that JRRT himself in the books text gives to the Barad-dur as spoken by the orcs. If a German sounding name was considered as authentic by JRRT then it should be darn well acceptable when used by the films. And besides, the name is not Lurtz spoken in the films. Why does anyone care about a name which is not really a name as seen or heard in the films?

I could answer that but it opens up the same old can of worms.

alatar · 11-30-2007, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

Why does anyone care about a name which is not really a name as seen or heard in the films?

Is it because of the names that could have been chosen, this name wasn't from Tolkien? Was this name constructed from 'orc-speak?' Or is it a mannish (i.e. Jackson et al) construction? And what was the reason to name the creature at all? Was is to make life easier ("Orc that fights with Aragorn...no, not you...not you...no, you the big guy...no...

sighs) instead of naming Lurtz "orc #2010" and/or the help this gives to marketing action figures.

Me? I just want to know if there's some interesting back story.

Sir Kohran · 11-30-2007, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Is it because of the names that could have been chosen, this name wasn't from Tolkien?

The character was created by Jackson though, so why use a name already belonging to any character? If he had been named Shagrat would you be any happier?

Nerwen · 11-30-2007, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alatar

Is it because of the names that could have been chosen, this name wasn't from Tolkien? Was this name constructed from 'orc-speak?' Or is it a mannish (i.e. Jackson et al) construction? And what was the reason to name the creature at all? Was is to make life easier ("Orc that fights with Aragorn...no, not you...not you...no, you the big guy...no...

sighs) instead of naming Lurtz "orc #2010" and/or the help this gives to marketing action figures.

It's common in films to give minor characters names for convenience, even if the names aren't used. And yes, no doubt they also named him with a view to selling action figures. What self-respecting child would want "orc #2010"?

Legate of Amon Lanc · 11-30-2007, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alatar

I think that you have it. Uglúk had to live that he might die another day (and lop off some heads in the interim), and so you couldn't have the Big U die at Parth Galen, as that would not be faithful to the books (and Jackson would never do that). How conclusive the end of FotR would be without the Lurtz-Aragorn duel, we'll never know. Seems like it worked for many, and note that even in FotR we had to start moving Aragorn towards kingship, and nothing says, "King" like a good head chopping.

I did not say I wanted Uglúk to die at Parth Galen. I said Uglúk would run off and survive till the next movie. That would be far more interesting as it would prolongate the baddie's life from one movie to another, so all the months between the introduction of FotR and TT the fans would be saying "I'm waiting to see Uglúk die!"

Also, "Lurtz-Aragorn duel"... do you call that a "duel"?

He simply appears and chops his head off. That's all. I don't see anything exceptional on that, except for another absolutely ruining image of Aragorn (the same as when he decapitates the Mouth of Sauron). I know, I shouldn't have posted here in the first place...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

Does not Lugburz also sound German? That is the name that JRRT himself in the books text gives to the Barad-dur as spoken by the orcs. If a German sounding name was considered as authentic by JRRT then it should be darn well acceptable when used by the films. And besides, the name is not Lurtz spoken in the films. Why does anyone care about a name which is not really a name as seen or heard in the films?

I am speaking about the name that is used. At least I believe it's in the credits. And mainly because this revived thread is about it.

Yes, Orcish maybe sounds a little bit German in general, at least some of the words, but definitely not as much as Lurtz. I have seen dozens of more Tolkien-Orcish names - Lurtz sounds like some city or a commercial group. It's the "tz". That's not normal. Also the choice the vowels and consonants are connected. Let's say, Lugruth would be okay. But Lurtz???

alatar · 11-30-2007, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I did not say I wanted Uglúk to die at Parth Galen. I said Uglúk would run off and survive till the next movie. That would be far more interesting as it would prolongate the baddie's life from one movie to another, so all the months between the introduction of FotR and TT the fans would be saying "I'm waiting to see Uglúk die!"

That's what I meant - that we couldn't have Uggy die if he were to have a pivotal role in TTT. Not sure how it would have worked as a cliff-hanger, as we are left with the Three trotting off to reclaim the two, and the other two off to Mordor. We mustn't complicate the movie overmuch, and adding "what happens to Uglúk" may just push some viewers over the edge.

Quote:

Also, "Lurtz-Aragorn duel"... do you call that a "duel"?

He simply appears and chops his head off. That's all. I don't see anything exceptional on that, except for another absolutely ruining image of Aragorn (the same as when he decapitates the Mouth of Sauron).

They box, throw things and play at swords. They even have some face-to-face time, and it's not until Aragorn realizes that Lurtz suffers from chronic acute halitosis that he tries to help by relieving the orc of its head (a medieval cure; Aragorn was no Elf nor scientist/barber).

Quote:

I know, I shouldn't have posted here in the first place...

Over-seriousness and logical thinking may be a detriment to posting in this part of the forum.

11-30-2007, 12:32 PM	#3
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Note in forward. This post is one of a movie-hater, if such a strong word as "hate" can be used, let's say rather a movie-disliker, whatever the case, in such light you have to look at it Lurtz sounds like a German name, not like an Orcish one. And I really don't understand why he is there and not Uglúk, who was a very, very strong character in the books, and he is reduced to a silly, to use Sir Kohran's words, "one of the many brutal Uruk leaders" with almost no lines in the movie. I understand they probably wanted Aragorn to chop this Uruk's head off. But then in the books, Éomer dismounts to duel (!) with Uglúk, and had they left Uglúk kill Boromir and then run away, I think the effect in the movie would have been even better: you will have a real baddie whom the audience awaits to be killed, Aragorn&folks pursuing the Uruk-hai would have created another expectations in the audience, and the duel with Éomer will raise both him and Uglúk even more in the eyes of the audience. No, I don't fancy any lurtzes (and why isn't he named at least like an Orc?). __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

11-30-2007, 08:50 AM	#1
Sauron the White Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 903	It would be good to remember that the character identified as LURTZ is not so named in the films. He is nameless and is only the field commander of a group of Uruks dispatched by Saruman from Isengard. This is consistent with the books in many ways.