Ruin of Doriath - The Shadow falls on Brethil

[Aaront596]

Originally Posted by Findegil

Aaron, I am sorry, but I could not bring myself to the task of figuring out your text. It would take me a study of hours to find all possible sources for the phrases you used. Could you please provide us with a bit more of information. Especially I would appreciate if you could mark the phrases put in by you editorially.

Respectfully
Findegil

Sure, I can probably do that but it might be a few days or so. I did that a long time ago and didn't bother to mark all of my decisions, because I did it for myself and didn't realize there was a project out there like this one. Also I don't mind if you don't feel like figuring it out or not i wouldn't want to do that either if i were you. I mainly posted it just in case someone was curious, not because I wanted to have critical feed back. But thank you for your interest anyway.
-Aaron

[Aaront596]

got to it a little sooner because you made me start thinking about how i actually did it

all notes are from note 54 at the end of the WH

Bold and Underlined words are mine. most of them are changes in tense.

After departing Húrin gathered a few men who, fearing the end of Brethil and desiring to flee further from Morgoth as well as having no homes or lands of their own, were willing to go with him. Húrin seemed to pick up strength and youth. Vengeance seemed to have heartened him, and he walked now strongly. At the Taiglin crossing they gathered the last fugitives of the wood-men (the kin of the folk of Brethil) and fell in with Asgon, who had heard rumour of the wild deeds in Brethil, and of Húrin's coming, and was now venturing back into the land to seek him. Asgon greeted Húrin and though glad that Hardang had been punished he was angered that no one had told Húrin of their coming. As they went on they chose Asgorn for captain, but he treated Húrin as lord, and he ever deferred to him asking, ‘Whither shall we go?’

Now Húrin elected to cross over Teiglin and passed southwards down the ancient road that led to Nargothrond; and he saw far off to the eastward the lonely height of Amon Rûdh, and knew what had befallen there. At length he came to the banks of Narog, and ventured the passage of the wild river upon the fallen stones of the bridge, as Mablung of Doriath had ventured it before him; and he stood before the broken Doors of Felagund, leaning upon his staff.

Here it must be told that after the departure of Glaurung Mîm the Petty-Dwarf had found his way to Nargothrond, and crept within the ruined halls; and he took possession of them, and sat there fingering the gold and the gems, letting them run ever through his hands, for none came nigh to despoil him, from dread of the spirit of Glaurung and his very memory for the terror of the drake lived longer than he. But now one had come, and stood upon the threshold; and Mîm came forth, and demanded, "What will ye with me, O outlaws of the hills?"


Bold and Underlined words are mine.

After departing Húrin gathered a few men who, fearing the end of Brethil and desiring to flee further from Morgoth as well as having no homes or lands of their own, were willing to go with him.

The sentence above was derived the note below:

A few men fearing the end of Brethil and desiring to flee further from Morgoth - having no homes or lands of their own - are willing to go with Hurin.



**********

Húrin seemed to pick up strength and youth. Vengeance seemed to have heartened him, and he walked now strongly.

The sentence above was derived the note below:

They depart - and fall in [sic] But now Hurin seems to pick up strength and youth - vengeance seems to have heartened him, and he [ ] and walks now
strongly.

**********

At the Taiglin crossing they gathered the last fugitives of the wood-men (the kin of the folk of Brethil) and fell in with Asgon, who had heard rumour of the wild deeds in Brethil, and of Húrin's coming, and was now venturing back into the land to seek him.

The sentence above was derived the from two notes below:

At the Taiglin crossing they fall in with Asgon, who has heard rumour of the wild deeds in Brethil, and of Hurin's coming, and are now venturing back into the land to seek him.

They pass into the woods and gather the last fugitives of the wood-men (the kin of the folk of Brethil).

**********

Asgon greeted Húrin and though glad that Hardang had been punished he was angered that no one had told Húrin of their coming.

The sentence above was derived the note below:

Asgon greets him - and is glad that Harathor has been punished. Angered that no one had told Hurin of their coming.

**********

As they went on they chose Asgorn for captain, but he treated Húrin as lord, and he ever deferred to him asking, ‘Whither shall we go?’

The sentence above was derived from the two notes below:

Asgorn they choose for captain, but he treats Hurin as lord, and does as he will[s]. Whither shall we go? They must [? know] a place of refuge.

They go on and gather fugitive 'wood-men'. They elect Asgon captain but he ever defers to Hurin. Whither to go?

**********

Now Húrin elected to cross over Teiglin and passed southwards down the ancient road that led to Nargothrond; and he saw far off to the eastward the lonely height of Amon Rûdh, and knew what had befallen there. At length he came to the banks of Narog, and ventured the passage of the wild river upon the fallen stones of the bridge, as Mablung of Doriath had ventured it before him; and he stood before the broken Doors of Felagund, leaning upon his staff.


The placement of the paragraph above from the Silmarillion was derived from the two notes below, and “elected” was added to it concerning the second note below:

They go towards Nargothrond

Hurin elects to go to Nargothrond


**********
the text that follows is simply the Silmarillion text from “Of the Ruin of Doriath” starting with:

Here it must be told that after the departure of Glaurung Mîm the Petty-Dwarf had found his way to Nargothrond, and crept within the ruined halls; and he took possession of them, and sat there fingering the gold and the gems, letting them run ever through his hands, for none came nigh to despoil him, from dread of the spirit of Glaurung and his very memory for the terror of the drake lived longer than he.


And ending with:

Then he turned away, and passed out from the Thousand Caves, and all that saw him fell back before his face; and none sought to withstand his going, nor did any know whither he went. But it is said that Húrin would not live thereafter, being bereft of all purpose and desire, and cast himself at last into the western sea; and so ended the mightiest of the warriors of mortal Men


Here are the notes:

A few men fearing the end of Brethil and desiring to flee further
from Morgoth - having no homes or lands of their own - are
willing to go with Hurin. They depart - and fall in [sic] But
now Hurin seems to pick up strength and youth - vengeance
seems to have heartened him, and he [ ] and walks now
strongly. They pass into the woods and gather the last fugitives
of the wood-men (the kin of the folk of Brethil).
Asgorn they choose for captain, but he treats Hurin as lord,
and does as he will[s]. Whither shall we go? They must
[? know] a place of refuge. They go towards Nargothrond

Hurin must depart. He gathers a few men who despair now of defending
Brethil from the growing strength of Morgoth [and] wish to fly
south. At the Taiglin crossing they fall in with Asgon, who has
heard rumour of the wild deeds in Brethil, and of Hurin's
coming, and are now venturing back into the land to seek him.
Asgon greets him - and is glad that Harathor has been
punished. Angered that no one had told Hurin of their coming.
They go on and gather fugitive 'wood-men'. They elect
Asgon captain but he ever defers to Hurin. Whither to go?
Hurin elects to go to Nargothrond. Why?

[emrys]

Somehow I had lost Fingedil reply.

Anyway I understand your point...here is the next:

Your Version

§270 (§1e) RD-EX-04 <WH, Note 54, Text 1 {Asgorn}[Asgon] they
{choose}chose for captain, but he {treats}treated Húrin as lord, and {does}did as he {will}willed. /And he asked therefore Húrin:/ ‘Whither shall we go? {They}/We/ must {[? }know{]} a place of refuge.’ /And/ Húrin {elects}elected to go to Nargothrond.>

§271 (§1f) RD-EX-05 <WH, Year 501 of The Grey Annals Of the wanderings of Húrin[ and his men] there is no tale told, until {he}they came at last late in {this}[the] year to Nargothrond. It is said that he had then gathered to him other fugitives and masterless men in the wild, and came south with a following of a hundred or more. But why it was that he went to Nargothrond is uncertain, save that so his doom and the fate of the Jewels led him.

Some have said that maybe he knew not that Glaurung was dead, and hoped in his heart distraught to take vengeance on this evil thing - for Morgoth would conceal the death of Glaurung, if he could, both because the loss was a grief to him and a hurt to his pride, and because (from Húrin especially) he would conceal all that was most valiant or successful of Túrin's deeds. Yet this can scarce be so, since the death of Glaurung was so bound up with the death of his children and revelation of their evil case; while the rumour of the assault of Glaurung upon Brethil went far and wide. Certainly Morgoth fenced men in Hithlum, as he was able, and little news came to them of events in other lands; but so soon as Húrin passed southward or met any wanderers in the wild he would hear tidings of the battle in the ravine of Taeglin. More likely is it that he was drawn thither to discover news of Túrin; to {Brethil}[Doriath] he would not yet come{, nor to Doriath}.>RD-EX-05.5<WH /And of old /he had been an admirer of Felagund.>

...continue...leaning upon his staff

My Version is briefer:

Asgon was chosen as their captain, but he treated Húrin as lord, and did as he willed. And he asked therefore Húrin: ‘Whither shall we go? We must find a place of refuge.’ And Húrin elected to go to Nargothrond; but why it was that he chose Nargothrond is uncertain, save that so his doom and the fate of the Jewels led him.

On a time therefore Húrin and his band came at last to the caves of Nargothrond, which as yet none, Orc, Elf, or Man, had dared to plunder, for dread of the spirit of Glaurung and his very memory. It is said that he had then gathered to him other fugitives and masterless men in the wild, and came south with a following of a hundred or more.

...continue as yours...leaning upon his staff

The difference in the two text is very slight, but in mine I retained most part of the Tale text.

A greater difference is that I have chosen to delete any references which shows that Hurin doesn't know of the death of Glaurung cause for sure, in both versions, he as already visited Brethil. I think that the sentence was inteded to be inserted in a previous version in which Hurin visited brethil after Nargothrond.

[Findegil]

Posted by Emrys:

A greater difference is that I have chosen to delete any references which shows that Hurin doesn't know of the death of Glaurung cause for sure, in both versions, he as already visited Brethil. I think that the sentence was inteded to be inserted in a previous version in which Hurin visited brethil after Nargothrond.

True, but as the text stands it is already in the text denied that Húrin could think Glaurung would be still alive. So what we have here is just a thinking on paper, which clears things upfor the reader.

But it is a just critique of our editing and would like to here other about that point.

But what do you think of the passage from about Húrin as an admirer of Felagund?

Respectfully
Findegil

[emrys]

While I think that in my opinion this first part maybe could stand:

Some have said that maybe he knew not that Glaurung was dead, and hoped in his heart distraught to take vengeance on this evil thing - for Morgoth would conceal the death of Glaurung, if he could, both because the loss was a grief to him and a hurt to his pride, and because (from Húrin especially) he would conceal all that was most valiant or successful of Túrin's deeds. Yet this can scarce be so, since the death of Glaurung was so bound up with the death of his children and revelation of their evil case;

This second part seems to suggest that Hùrin has not yet visited Brethil, which doesn't sound right to me: Has Húrin heard tidings of the ravine of Taeglin from wanderers in the wild and not in the time he spent in Brethil?

while the rumour of the assault of Glaurung upon Brethil went far and wide. Certainly Morgoth fenced men in Hithlum, as he was able, and little news came to them of events in other lands; but so soon as Húrin passed southward or met any wanderers in the wild he would hear tidings of the battle in the ravine of Taeglin.

This last part I think could stand as well. (nothing against Felagund)

More likely is it that he was drawn thither to discover news of Túrin; to {Brethil}[Doriath] he would not yet come{, nor to Doriath}.>RD-EX-05.5<WH /And of old /he had been an admirer of Felagund.>

- Emrys -

[Findegil]

From Emrys version:

But now Húrin seemed to pick up strength and youth - vengeance seemed to have heartened him, and he and walked now strongly. Thus passing into the woods south of Taeglin, he gathered the last fugitives of the Woodmen; a kin of the folk of Brethil who, having no homes or lands of their own, despaired now of defending themselves from the growing strength of Morgoth and wished to flee further south.

Coming back to this I must say that after more consideration I think it is wrong to us this sentence for the Woodmen. What we knew about them is that they tended homes and clearings (land) of their own.

Nonetheless I agree that this sentence about the people having no homes or lands of thier own being more ready to join Húrin has some apeal. But in my view it does fit some inhabitants of Brethil much better then the Wooodmen from south of Taeglin. In sofare Aarons version is mor to my liking. What is about such a editing:

§267 (§1a) RD-EX-01 <WH Now it is said that those who {…}/sided/ with Hardang were not all caught, and others came in hearing the news, and there was fighting in the Obel, and a great burning, until all was well nigh destroyed. But when the {madness [written above: }wrath{]} of men had cooled they made peace, and some said: 'What hath bewitched us? Surely Húrin begot all this evil, and Hardang and {Avranc}[Daruin] were more wise. They would have kept him out if they could.' So they chose {Avranc}[Daruin] to be their chief, since none of the House of Haleth were left, but {[?? }he wielded no{]} such authority and reverence as the Chieftains before, and the Folk of Brethil fell back again to be more like their kinsmen in the {[?}open{]} woods - each minding his own houselands and little {...}[clearings] and their {...}[confederation] was loosened.>
§268 (§1b) {Húrin gathered therefore a few outlaws of the woods unto him, and they came to Nargothrond, which as yet none, Orc, Elf, or Man, had dared to plunder, for dread of the spirit of Glomund and his very memory.}RD-SL-01 <Conclusion of the second draft Manuscript WH; Note 54 But some misliked this and would not serve under {Avranc}[Daruin] and made ready to depart, and they joined Húrin.>RD-EX-01.5<WH Note 54 Isolated page end & text 2 A few men fearing the end of Brethil <{despair}despaired now of defending Brethil from the growing strength of Morgoth>, desiring to flee further from Morgoth - having no homes or lands of their own - {are}were/ also/ willing to go with Hurin.> RD-EX-02 <WH, Note 54, Text 2 At the Taeglin crossing they {fall}fell in with Asgon, who {has}had heard rumour of the wild deeds in Brethil, and of Húrin's coming, and {are}was now venturing back into the land to seek him. Asgon {greets}greeted him - and {is}was glad that {Harathor}[Hardang] {has}had been punished. And he was angered {Angered} that no one had told Húrin of their coming.>

For smooth reading I add a clean text

§267 (§1a) Now it is said that those who sided with Hardang were not all caught, and others came in hearing the news, and there was fighting in the Obel, and a great burning, until all was well nigh destroyed. But when the wrath of men had cooled they made peace, and some said: 'What hath bewitched us? Surely Húrin begot all this evil, and Hardang and Daruin were more wise. They would have kept him out if they could.' So they chose Daruin to be their chief, since none of the House of Haleth were left, but he wielded no such authority and reverence as the Chieftains before, and the Folk of Brethil fell back again to be more like their kinsmen in the open woods - each minding his own houselands and little clearings and their confederation was loosened.
§268 (§1b) But some misliked this and would not serve under Daruin and made ready to depart, and they joined Húrin. A few men fearing the end of Brethil despaired now of defending Brethil from the growing strength of Morgoth, desiring to flee further from Morgoth - having no homes or lands of their own - were also willing to go with Hurin. At the Taeglin crossing they fell in with Asgon, who had heard rumour of the wild deeds in Brethil, and of Húrin's coming, and was now venturing back into the land to seek him. Asgon greeted him - and was glad that Hardang had been punished. And he was angered that no one had told Húrin of their coming.

Respectfully
Findegil

P.S.: Aiwendil, Maedhros, please comment at least at this, since it seems we come to the point were we start editing the text we three once agreed upon.

[emrys]

just a note...

It seems to me that you have omitted this:

§269 (§1d) RD-EX-02.7<WH, Note 54, Text 2 But now Húrin {seems}seemed to pick up strength and youth - vengeance {seems}seemed to have heartened him, and he {[ ] and walks}walked now strongly. They {pass}passed into the woods <RD-EX-03 editorial addition to make a the term wood-men understandable south of Taeglin> and {gather}gathered the last fugitives of the wood-men (the kin of the folk of Brethil).>

This part should be inserted before the meeting with Asgon, isn't it?

- Emrys -