Who is Gandalf's and Radagast's common ancestor? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Meriadoc1961 · 10-24-2007, 11:49 AM

I have considered the possibilities expressed so far, but I have also thought of another explanation: it is simply a "mistake" made by Tolkien. By "mistake" I mean I believe he wrote The Hobbit independently and the rest of LotR and The Silmariliion followed from its success, and he tied it all together. I believe at the time he wrote The Hobbit that he had not considered to the extent he later did the origins of wizards. He may have thought they were merely old, wise men with magical arts and abilities. Therefore, he and Radagast easily could have been cousins in the literal, physical sense of the word with grandparents as the common ancestors when he first wrote that they were cousins.

Merry:

Legate of Amon Lanc · 10-24-2007, 12:14 PM

Well, of course. But in that case I don't suppose that Tolkien had any ancestor made up for them.

William Cloud Hicklin · 10-24-2007, 01:42 PM

Actually Tolkien here as so often was using a word in its older sense: cousin meant generically "kinsman," without implying a particular relationship. (So also did 'nephew', which meant only younger male relative- hence T's preference for the more specific 'sister-son.')

Of course, externally it's the case that when T wrote the passage he had no idea that Gandalf was anything other than a Man with magical abilities.

10-24-2007, 11:49 AM	#1
Meriadoc1961 Wight Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 101	I have considered the possibilities expressed so far, but I have also thought of another explanation: it is simply a "mistake" made by Tolkien. By "mistake" I mean I believe he wrote The Hobbit independently and the rest of LotR and The Silmariliion followed from its success, and he tied it all together. I believe at the time he wrote The Hobbit that he had not considered to the extent he later did the origins of wizards. He may have thought they were merely old, wise men with magical arts and abilities. Therefore, he and Radagast easily could have been cousins in the literal, physical sense of the word with grandparents as the common ancestors when he first wrote that they were cousins. Merry: __________________ "If I yawn again, I shall split at the ears!"

10-24-2007, 12:14 PM	#2
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Well, of course. But in that case I don't suppose that Tolkien had any ancestor made up for them. __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

10-24-2007, 01:42 PM	#3
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	Actually Tolkien here as so often was using a word in its older sense: cousin meant generically "kinsman," without implying a particular relationship. (So also did 'nephew', which meant only younger male relative- hence T's preference for the more specific 'sister-son.') Of course, externally it's the case that when T wrote the passage he had no idea that Gandalf was anything other than a Man with magical abilities. __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.