A 10th Nazgul?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Lord Halsar

To the most of my knowledge, little was really said about these 'lesser wraiths' than what is said in the FotR. I simply wish Tolkien had said more of the matter, the topic in itself fascinates me to a great extent.

You are right. This topic is indeed very interesting (like most of the "unfinished tales" of Tolkien), but as with many things, we are indeed left to speculation.

Originally Posted by CSteefel

I had this same question some time ago. As stated in the text, the 5 Nazgul withdrew after stabbing Frodo, thinking he would have soon succumbed to the wound. This suggests of course that they had some experience in the matter of turning their victims in to wraiths. This suggests in turn that there are more than one of these victims wandering around, although lacking one of the Nine Rings, there power would be very limited.

I wouldn't be so sure. As I said before, if it were that easy to make Morgul-blades, the Nazgul could make about hundred of them, send some Orcs to make a raid and kill a hundred Gondorians, and thus make a nice little army of wights.
Concerning the withdrawal of the Ringwraith, I don't think they would need to have practical experience with turning people to wraiths - if they made them (especially the Witch-king, which I believe he did, being the master of sorcery and all; and even if he did not, as a sorcerer he would "know" how the blade works). That's not that I am saying they did not (or, to be precise, the Witch-King did not) stab anyone with a Morgul-blade before, making him a wraith, but I believe this could have happened once or twice, not twenty or thirty times (or maybe, the Nazgul being so ancient - and if the Morgul-blades are ancient as well, and do not exist just from the moment when Minas Morgul was built, for more about this see my post above - they could have done that more often, especially during the Second Age when Sauron was at his full power; but that would mean twenty or thirty times in five thousand years, which is not as much).

Originally Posted by CSteefel

In fact, I was wondering whether this was not the fate of Earnur, who was lost in Minas Morgul...

You are coming to very similar conclusions, or ideas I once had as well (well, I was eleven at that moment, but forget it ), and it's more than logical. Since we don't know anything of Eärnur's fate, and he rode to Morgul to face the Witch-king himself, it is not as improbable that he could end like that. However that's still left only to speculation and in my opinion, if we were to stay more true to the "spirit of the story", it would be more probable that Eärnur was ambushed by a force of orcs, outnumbered, and though he fought valiantly and slain many orcs, he could not win because the orcs were many, and his body was dishonourably... hmm... thrown to Shelob? Or something like that.

[CSteefel]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I wouldn't be so sure. As I said before, if it were that easy to make Morgul-blades, the Nazgul could make about hundred of them, send some Orcs to make a raid and kill a hundred Gondorians, and thus make a nice little army of wights.

I am not sure that a Morgul blade in the hands of an Orc would have an identical effect as it would wielded by one of the Nazgul.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

You are coming to very similar conclusions, or ideas I once had as well (well, I was eleven at that moment, but forget it ), and it's more than logical. Since we don't know anything of Eärnur's fate, and he rode to Morgul to face the Witch-king himself, it is not as improbable that he could end like that. However that's still left only to speculation and in my opinion, if we were to stay more true to the "spirit of the story", it would be more probable that Eärnur was ambushed by a force of orcs, outnumbered, and though he fought valiantly and slain many orcs, he could not win because the orcs were many, and his body was dishonourably... hmm... thrown to Shelob? Or something like that.

It seems the suggestion is that it was the work of the Nazgul, since Tolkien in Appendix A says:

...and he rode with a small escort of knights to the gate of Minas Morgul. None of that riding were ever heard of again

although this does not rule out Orcs issuing from the tower. Still, it seems likely that only the Nazgul could have guaranteed that none escaped, or perhaps more importantly, that (with the people of Gondor)

the faithless enemy had trapped the king, and that he had died in torment in Minas Morgul.

But to me, the strongest indication that wraiths are likely to be out there is that Gandalf says that the Nazgul withdrew expecting the Morgul Blade to do its work and turn Frodo in to a wraith. This suggests some previous experience with this... But then, the Hobbit did not fade nearly as fast as the men who had experienced the same wound...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by CSteefel

I am not sure that a Morgul blade in the hands of an Orc would have an identical effect as it would wielded by one of the Nazgul.

Well, of course I did not even expect that something as rare and powerful as the Morgul-blades would be given to the hands of an Orc, that would be like giving a Ring of Power to an Orc, which is a nonsense (from Sauron's point of view I believe with no doubt). But what you said is interesting - so you think that the Morgul blade did not have the powers of its own, but that it depended also on who the wielder was, like for example with the One Ring (where it gave the bearer power according to his own)?

Originally Posted by CSteefel

It seems the suggestion is that it was the work of the Nazgul, since Tolkien in Appendix A says:

although this does not rule out Orcs issuing from the tower.

Especially when there were the knights, I would suspect an ambush there, and it's not necessary to think that they were ambushed by Nazgul there (although if they wanted to scare Eärnur's men to death, it could be maybe more interesting than simple regiment of Orcs). But I think not, and where we don't have definite statement, it's better to try to look for a similar situation and how Sauron acted. And Sauron, that "base master of treachery", is quite capable to invite you somewhere and then send a few dozen Orcs at you. The WK or other Nazgul could have "supervised" all the action, mainly when someone as important as Eärnur was concerned, but what is pretty clear also from the second quote you provided, Eärnur was most likely not beaten in a "fair fight", and while he came to the land of the enemy, where there were hundreds of Orcs all around him, I don't think the WK would necessarily need to bother with him personally. Although it is possible, for he was certainly convinced that "no living man could kill him" (as we know from his speech at Pelennor), so he will not have any problem with going to face Eärnur.

Originally Posted by CSteefel

But to me, the strongest indication that wraiths are likely to be out there is that Gandalf says that the Nazgul withdrew expecting the Morgul Blade to do its work and turn Frodo in to a wraith. This suggests some previous experience with this... But then, the Hobbit did not fade nearly as fast as the men who had experienced the same wound...

Again, if you take just the plain facta, it is not necessary that they had the personal experience - they could have just known how the blade works, theoretically (as when you buy some apparatus and you never used it, but you know what it's supposed to do). Gandalf also knew what the blade is supposed to do and we can say that he definitely did not use the blade before. (This of course implies that he probably knew that such a thing exists and how it works, either through studying some "knowledge of the Enemy" - so more probably he heard of that from Saruman - or through hearing about, or experiencing some case when another person was hurt. But then, it won't be Eärnur, as no one knew of his fate.) In any case, it is only a theory that the Nazgul have used the blade before, and it is only a theory that if they did, one of the uses could have been Eärnur. The tale is not saying "no", but it is not even saying "yes".

[CSteefel]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Again, if you take just the plain facta, it is not necessary that they had the personal experience - they could have just known how the blade works, theoretically (as when you buy some apparatus and you never used it, but you know what it's supposed to do). Gandalf also knew what the blade is supposed to do and we can say that he definitely did not use the blade before. (This of course implies that he probably knew that such a thing exists and how it works, either through studying some "knowledge of the Enemy" - so more probably he heard of that from Saruman - or through hearing about, or experiencing some case when another person was hurt. But then, it won't be Eärnur, as no one knew of his fate.) In any case, it is only a theory that the Nazgul have used the blade before, and it is only a theory that if they did, one of the uses could have been Eärnur. The tale is not saying "no", but it is not even saying "yes".

Well, I don't know about that. It seems to me clearly stated in the text by Gandalf that the Nazgul withdrew expected the wound from the Morgul Blade to overcome Frodo. Otherwise, they would have attacked again. This doesn't seem to be something that would be a "theoretical result"--much likelier to have come from some prior experience.

I suppose that a large company of Orcs could have trapped Earnur and his Knights, but certainly the Witch King did not seem to be afraid to confront him 9 years or so before in Eriador...

[Lord Halsar]

Well the Witchking may have been mighty and merciless, but it seems that he can be rather easily goaded into battle, as we certainly saw by his encounter with Eowyn.
No doubt Earnur would have occasionally mocked him over his loss of Angmar. So it was likely a matter of pride for our tall and gruesome freind.
And even accepting the Witchking's challenge (however delayed it may have been) seems rather arrogant and possibly insulting to the Witchking. I am not meaning to draw any conclusions by my next statement, so please don't make it sound like I am. But what better fate for one that had drawn the Witchking's rage as much as Earnur, than to become the very thing he had fought so bravely against. This is only speculation however, and comes simply from my understanding (If it can be called such) of the Witchking's hatred of Earnur and the Gondorians.
But as I have said before, we really don't know.

[Gwathagor]

I agree that anyone who got wraith-ized with a black stabby wraith knife would not have been a Black Rider-level wraith. They would be a different variety of wraith altogether, as their wraith-ness had no connection any of the Rings, really. Had Frodo been successfully wraith-ized avec wraith knife, he would have become a puny, flimsy, useless, drifting, invisible spirit. The point of the wraith-izing morgul knife was to take away power, not to grant more of it. They were trying to make him as thoroughly weak and helpless as possible.

[Groin Redbeard]

I don't think Frodo could have become a wraith like the other Nazgul; he would definitely be a lesser wraith, possibly even a spy because of his short stature.

You have to remember that before the Nazgul were wraiths they were great kings of men, skilled in battle and strategizing. It would be hard to find another living person who would meet their skill. The Nazugul were use to working with each other, they could act as a team, and a new addition to that team may have caused friction between them. Maybe this is why they didn't have more Nazgul, but I think anyone would be content with Nine wraiths.