Saruman for or against Sauron?

Raynor, you have been a nuisance in other threads, & you are edging ever closer to that status here too. You know full well that Galadriel told Frodo that one who wishes to wield the Ring must have a great power of their own first. I will not quote the exact words, as you should know exactly what I am talking about.

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Mansun

Galadriel told Frodo that one who wishes to wield the Ring must have a great power of their own first. I will not quote the exact words, as you should know exactly what I am talking about.

Where exactly is it said that Aragorn does not have the required power? And it would be nice of you if you stop making personal comments.

Originally Posted by Raynor

Where exactly is it said that Aragorn does not have the required power? And it would be nice of you if you stop making personal comments.

Where exactly does it say Prince Imrahil does not have the power to wield the Ring? These sorts of questions are annoying aren't they?

Think of the personal comment as a Gandalf vs Pippin scenario .

[Gil-Galad]

this argument amuses Gil-Galad. continue.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

[Denethor] sent Boromir to Rivendell in the hope he may gain support from the Wise to use the Ring in Minas Tirith, did he not?

I believe you've been led astray by the movies. Denethor knew nothing of the Ring, nor did Boromir or Faramir, when the elder son departed. He was merely enquiring as to the meaning of his strange dream (wherein 'Isildur's Bane' is not clarified, and indeed Boromir thought it might be an Orc-arrow)

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hickli

I believe you've been led astray by the movies. Denethor knew nothing of the Ring, nor did Boromir or Faramir, when the elder son departed. He was merely enquiring as to the meaning of his strange dream (wherein 'Isildur's Bane' is not clarified, and indeed Boromir thought it might be an Orc-arrow)

I believe you have made a mistake here - recall the words of Boromir when the Ring was presented to the Council. He desired to use it for the war against Mordor. Also, recall the words of Denethor on his son's role :"He would have brought me a mighty gift".

[William Cloud Hicklin]

I believe you have made a mistake here - recall the words of Boromir when the Ring was presented to the Council. He desired to use it for the war against Mordor. Also, recall the words of Denethor on his son's role :"He would have brought me a mighty gift".

Boromir's speech at the Council occurs only after he has been told the Ring's history and Frodo displays "Isildur's Bane;" and even then Boromir is at first dubious.

As for Denethor, his tongue-lashing of Faramir occurs after Gandalf has let him in on the secret; and the context of course is What if Boromir had been in Ithilien? Nothing to do with the Fellowship. No-one in Gondor knew about the Ring until Gandalf's arrival in March. Remember, at the Council when Elrond relates that Isildur took the Ring, Boromir is shocked, and says expressly that this 'little' fact was completely unknown in the South. Only in Arnor and Rivendell was the truth known.

The whole notion that Denethor knew about the Ring and about the Council*, and despatched Boromir expressly to grab it for him, is an invention of Peter Jackson and his co-conspirators.


*to which no invitations were sent! Boromir in fact left Minas Tirith several weeks before Frodo ever departed Bag-end.

Originally Posted by Gil-Galad

this argument amuses Gil-Galad. continue.

Do you want a taste of Gandalf's staff too?