Denethor's plunge - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Knight of Gondor · 09-25-2007, 08:12 PM

I wonder...does anyone remember the march of Dain II Ironfoot to aid Thorin in the would-be siege of Erebor? As I recall, each dwarf bore a pack as heavy as himself, if not heavier. Has anyone gauged the required distance, given the heavy packs?

Again, no one is saying this is feasible in the "real world", I'm just bringing a similar journey of heavy-laden dwarves into the mix.

***Mister Underhill*** · 09-26-2007, 12:18 AM

In Middle-earth, Dwarves are consistently portrayed as being a particularly hardy race, capable of unusual feats of endurance. Most of those references have already been cited. Dwarves do not equal real world humans. Nor do Elves. Nor do the descendants of Númenorean kings. It's not an error. In Middle-earth, it's just the way it is.

I appreciate that you posted a second time in a more reasonable tone. I have to tell you, though, that you'd be more convincing if you didn't seem to have the same knee-jerk loyalty to the movies as you sometimes claim others have for the books. I don't know why you take it so personally. If someone has a different opinion about the movies than you do, so what? You don't have to "convert" them to your way of thinking any more than you have to be converted to theirs. I haven't seen too many of these straw man Purists (with a capital P!) you've constructed around anyway.

I don't hate PJ or his movies. You can check my track record. I was really rooting for the movies to be great, while expecting and approving that there would be significant changes from the book. Does that make me a Purist? No, I guess what does is that the movies turned out to be, for me, enjoyable in many ways, but not great.

Denethor's plunge is a prime example -- it's not internally consistent for him to be able to run, engulfed in flame, the distance established in the movie.

Somewhere around here -- there seem to be about three different threads currently engaged in determining the running capacity of a partially-laden Dwarf -- I think it was littlemanpoet who said something to the effect that if he hadn't read the books, he wouldn't have had problems with the movies. That's not my experience. For me, the parts that are most frustrating are where the movies -- as movies, on their own terms -- fail logically or in terms of internal consistency.

Sauron the White · 09-26-2007, 08:08 AM

Since we are discussing those hardy Dwarves - a site called der-hobbitfilm.de has the following report up today

Quote:

9/26/2007
Yesterday I got an interesting email, I'll just publish it here uncommented:
I have a friend who lives in New Zealand near Lake Te Anau and he said that a few people from New Line came to inspect the area and asked to go on their land. My friend asked why and they said they want to see if it would be a good place for the Lonely Mountain. They seemed really pleased with the location.

The site has been reporting - somewhat sparingly - on developments for a HOBBIT movie. This is their latest news.

09-25-2007, 08:12 PM	#1
Knight of Gondor Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 744	I wonder...does anyone remember the march of Dain II Ironfoot to aid Thorin in the would-be siege of Erebor? As I recall, each dwarf bore a pack as heavy as himself, if not heavier. Has anyone gauged the required distance, given the heavy packs? Again, no one is saying this is feasible in the "real world", I'm just bringing a similar journey of heavy-laden dwarves into the mix. __________________ Eagerly awaiting the REAL Return of the King - Jesus Christ! Revelation 19:11-16

09-26-2007, 12:18 AM	#2
*Mister Underhill* Dread Horseman Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Behind you! Posts: 2,744	In Middle-earth, Dwarves are consistently portrayed as being a particularly hardy race, capable of unusual feats of endurance. Most of those references have already been cited. Dwarves do not equal real world humans. Nor do Elves. Nor do the descendants of Númenorean kings. It's not an error. In Middle-earth, it's just the way it is. I appreciate that you posted a second time in a more reasonable tone. I have to tell you, though, that you'd be more convincing if you didn't seem to have the same knee-jerk loyalty to the movies as you sometimes claim others have for the books. I don't know why you take it so personally. If someone has a different opinion about the movies than you do, so what? You don't have to "convert" them to your way of thinking any more than you have to be converted to theirs. I haven't seen too many of these straw man Purists (with a capital P!) you've constructed around anyway. I don't hate PJ or his movies. You can check my track record. I was really rooting for the movies to be great, while expecting and approving that there would be significant changes from the book. Does that make me a Purist? No, I guess what does is that the movies turned out to be, for me, enjoyable in many ways, but not great. Denethor's plunge is a prime example -- it's not internally consistent for him to be able to run, engulfed in flame, the distance established in the movie. Somewhere around here -- there seem to be about three different threads currently engaged in determining the running capacity of a partially-laden Dwarf -- I think it was littlemanpoet who said something to the effect that if he hadn't read the books, he wouldn't have had problems with the movies. That's not my experience. For me, the parts that are most frustrating are where the movies -- as movies, on their own terms -- fail logically or in terms of internal consistency.