The Scouring of the Shire - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

littlemanpoet · 09-18-2007, 03:28 AM

No, but I always felt that I ought to read The Pickwick Papers, and given this encouragement, I think I shall.

Meriadoc1961 · 09-18-2007, 07:46 AM

The Pickwick Papers, altough it is not a work of fantasy, influenced LotR somewhat in the servant/master relationship between Frodo and Samwise. I see the very same type of relationship between Pickwick and his servant, Samivel. Samivel reminds me in many ways of Samwise Gamgee.

By the way, be prepared to laugh out loud through parts of The Pickwick Papers.

littlemanpoet · 05-19-2016, 05:02 PM

I'm drawn to this thread again because I'm reading "The Scouring of the Shire" for the 6th time.

I'm struck by the modern feel of it compared to the rest of the book. It has a similar feel, to my mind, as "The Grapes of Wrath," "Animal Farm," and other works of the period. Something in the air, I suppose...

Morthoron · 05-19-2016, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

I'm drawn to this thread again because I'm reading "The Scouring of the Shire" for the 6th time.

I'm struck by the modern feel of it compared to the rest of the book. It has a similar feel, to my mind, as "The Grapes of Wrath," "Animal Farm," and other works of the period. Something in the air, I suppose...

Well, "The Grapes of Wrath" and "Animal Farm" both deal with social upheaval and change for the worse, rather than progress - although there was a small coterie led by the Sackville-Bagginses who viewed what they were doing as "progress' in a sense, the same sort of horrid sense that probably drove Tolkien to rage after WWII when old cottages and farms were torn down and pre-fab suburbs of half-arsed housing were slapped up (probably much the same in Britain as in the States after the war), with highways running over what was once fertile fields and forest. It is easy to see the dismay of the returning Hobbits as one and the same as Tolkien's.

Inziladun · 05-19-2016, 07:36 PM

What strikes me is the way that some hobbits, notably Lotho Sackville-Baggins and Ted Sandyman, show that their race was not immune to the desire for power over their fellows.

It took an outside force, Saruman, to corrupt them (or just point a way for them to indulge notions they'd always had), but once some got a taste of even petty authority, they seem to have enjoyed it. I wonder what might have occurred if, say, Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin had all died in fighting off the Ruffians. Would the Shire had recovered as well as it did? Or would the germ of corruption have remained and spread overt time, without the help of Men?

09-18-2007, 07:46 AM	#2
Meriadoc1961 Wight Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 101	The Pickwick Papers, altough it is not a work of fantasy, influenced LotR somewhat in the servant/master relationship between Frodo and Samwise. I see the very same type of relationship between Pickwick and his servant, Samivel. Samivel reminds me in many ways of Samwise Gamgee. By the way, be prepared to laugh out loud through parts of The Pickwick Papers. __________________ "If I yawn again, I shall split at the ears!"

05-19-2016, 07:36 PM	#5
Inziladun Gruesome Spectre Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Heaven's doorstep Posts: 8,039	What strikes me is the way that some hobbits, notably Lotho Sackville-Baggins and Ted Sandyman, show that their race was not immune to the desire for power over their fellows. It took an outside force, Saruman, to corrupt them (or just point a way for them to indulge notions they'd always had), but once some got a taste of even petty authority, they seem to have enjoyed it. I wonder what might have occurred if, say, Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin had all died in fighting off the Ruffians. Would the Shire had recovered as well as it did? Or would the germ of corruption have remained and spread overt time, without the help of Men? __________________ Music alone proves the existence of God.

09-18-2007, 03:28 AM	#1
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	No, but I always felt that I ought to read The Pickwick Papers, and given this encouragement, I think I shall.

05-19-2016, 05:02 PM	#3
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	I'm drawn to this thread again because I'm reading "The Scouring of the Shire" for the 6th time. I'm struck by the modern feel of it compared to the rest of the book. It has a similar feel, to my mind, as "The Grapes of Wrath," "Animal Farm," and other works of the period. Something in the air, I suppose...