Silmarillion - Chapter 16 - Of Maeglin - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

William Cloud Hicklin · 09-07-2007, 10:35 AM

Tolkien went back and forth as to whether there were any Avari in Beleriand (btw, 'Moriquendi' refers to *all* Elves who never crossed the Sea, so it applies to Sindar and Nandor as well. Tolkien later conceded that the Noldor didn't use the term in polite conversation).

In the Lost Tales notebook Eol is "of the Mole-kin of the Gnomes [Noldoli, Noldor]," and in the Fall of Gondolin Meglin is described similarly.

Isfin [Aredhel] and her kidnapping/marriage first entered in the fragmentary Lay of Gondolin (ca. 1921), where it is said of Eol "the Dark Elves were his kindred who wander without home." However, the distinction between what would later be Avari and Sindar was very fuzzy at this stage: in the Tale of Tinuviel, written not long before, "many a wild and woodland clan rallied beneath King Tinwelint [Thingol]. Of these the most were Ilkorindi - which is to say Eldar that had never beheld Valinor or the Two Trees or dwelt in Kor [Tirion] - and eerie they were and strange beings, knowing little of light or loveliness or of musics....." In the Tale of The Coming of the Elves, written after Tinuviel, Tinwe Linto, beguiled by "the fay Wendelin," alone remains behind while all of the Solosimpi [Teleri] embark on the island, and the implication is that his people are the many Elves who were lost in "those old forests" of "Hisilome the land of shade:" and "the Lost Elves did [Men] name the Shadow Folk and feared them" (in this version there are no Elves who refuse to embark on the Great Journey, the later definition of Avari). The confusion isn't helped by the fact that in the Lay of Gondolin Isfin's capture occurs in "Doriath"- but it's unclear whether that name applied at the time to Tinwelint/Thingol's realm, in the Lost Tales called "Artanor."

In the Later Annals of Beleriand (mid-30's), Eol is simply called "Dark-elf," which doesn't clarify matters. And in the original Quenta Silmarillion (1937), he's oddly not mentioned at all! (Tolkien never reached the Fall of Gondolin in that work).

09-07-2007, 10:35 AM	#5
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	Tolkien went back and forth as to whether there were any Avari in Beleriand (btw, 'Moriquendi' refers to all Elves who never crossed the Sea, so it applies to Sindar and Nandor as well. Tolkien later conceded that the Noldor didn't use the term in polite conversation). In the Lost Tales notebook Eol is "of the Mole-kin of the Gnomes [Noldoli, Noldor]," and in the Fall of Gondolin Meglin is described similarly. Isfin [Aredhel] and her kidnapping/marriage first entered in the fragmentary Lay of Gondolin (ca. 1921), where it is said of Eol "the Dark Elves were his kindred who wander without home." However, the distinction between what would later be Avari and Sindar was very fuzzy at this stage: in the Tale of Tinuviel, written not long before, "many a wild and woodland clan rallied beneath King Tinwelint [Thingol]. Of these the most were Ilkorindi - which is to say Eldar that had never beheld Valinor or the Two Trees or dwelt in Kor [Tirion] - and eerie they were and strange beings, knowing little of light or loveliness or of musics....." In the Tale of The Coming of the Elves, written after Tinuviel, Tinwe Linto, beguiled by "the fay Wendelin," alone remains behind while all of the Solosimpi [Teleri] embark on the island, and the implication is that his people are the many Elves who were lost in "those old forests" of "Hisilome the land of shade:" and "the Lost Elves did [Men] name the Shadow Folk and feared them" (in this version there are no Elves who refuse to embark on the Great Journey, the later definition of Avari). The confusion isn't helped by the fact that in the Lay of Gondolin Isfin's capture occurs in "Doriath"- but it's unclear whether that name applied at the time to Tinwelint/Thingol's realm, in the Lost Tales called "Artanor." In the Later Annals of Beleriand (mid-30's), Eol is simply called "Dark-elf," which doesn't clarify matters. And in the original Quenta Silmarillion (1937), he's oddly not mentioned at all! (Tolkien never reached the Fall of Gondolin in that work). __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. Last edited by William Cloud Hicklin; 09-07-2007 at 10:44 AM.